Changing Binder [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changing Binder [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SilentMan
09-30-07, 09:10 AM How would this affect play balance ?

1. Binder can have as many Vestiges as bound as he wants.
2. There are eight levels of vestige; each one requires a certain binder level for the binder to call that level of vestige.This still applies.
3. Ignore Special Requirements feat is disallowed.
InkBlot
09-30-07, 02:29 PM Let me get this straight. Under your proposal 7th level binder could have Buer, Andras, Agares, Eurynome, Tenebrous, Aym, Leraje, Naberious, Ronove, Dahlver-Nar, Haagenti, Malphas, Savnok, Andromalius, Focalor, Karsus, and Paimon all bound at the same time?

No way. That's utterly broken! You'd have fast healing, you take half damage from all attacks, you have infinite CLW, free +1 fullplate that you can move at full speed in, +10 to your base speed, DR 2/piercing and lawful, anyone who hits you in melee takes 1d6 fire damage, you have 4d6 sneak attack/sudden strike, a free large (2d6) +1 warhammer that you can wield in one hand, you can walk on water, uncanny dodge, free Whirlwind Attack feat.

And that's not even scratching the surface! Any round you're not full power attacking you're forcing your enemy to take half your injuries, shooting lightning, breathing blinding clouds of tears, commanding your foes to flee, moving up to your speed and attacking everyone in your path, dispelling magic, etc.

And all of this can be done at will, or at worst once every five rounds. And you still have 3/4 BAB, a d8 HD, and binding augments.

No. The only thing balancing binders is the fact that they can't have access to all these effects at once.
SilentMan
09-30-07, 03:25 PM No way. That's utterly broken!

I thought so.But since nobody had asked this before.

Could it work in a setting with where other spellcasters get Recharge Magic-variant.
InkBlot
09-30-07, 04:29 PM No, even then you'd be vastly more powerful than anybody else of the same level.

Doubling the number of vestiges you can bind at once could work in a Gestalt game. So at 1st level you could bind two at once, and at 8th you could bind four at once.

edit: If you want more versatility in your binders, you could try the following variant.

Gains: The ability to expel a vestige at any time. This functions as Expel Vestige feat, but you can use it as many times in a day as you wish, and you take a -2 penalty to your next binding check instead of a -10. Each time you expel another vestige in the same day, you take an additional -2 penalty. If you fail your check to expel a vestige, you show it's sign and influence and can not attempt to expel it again for one hour.

For example, Riangee the 5th level binder has a +8 binding check modifier. In the morning she binds Malphas so that she can scout the trail ahead of her. Several hours later she is about to enter a dangerous dungeon, so she expels Malphas and binds Savnok with a -2 penalty to her binding check. After battling her way through the dungeon, she comes to a magically locked door. She expels Savnok and binds Karsus with a -4 penalty to her binding check.

Loses: Access to all vestiges. A binder only knows how to summon a limited number of vestiges. At 1st level she starts with knowledge of two vestiges of her choice. At every level after 1st she gains knowledge of one additional vestige, of any level up to the highest level vestige she can summon. A binder is still limited to binding one vestige at a time, until 8th level.

For example, Riangee the 5th level binder knows how to summon seven different vestiges; Aym, Larje, Ronove, Malphas, Savnok, and Karsus.

This variant was originally intended for games which use a greater variety of vestiges than presented in the ToM; vestiges from web enhancements, Dragon and Dungeon magazines, and threads on this board such as Let's Make Some New Vestiges. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=606718) It prevents every binder from feeling too similar to one another, and it gives binders more flexibility over a given day while keeping their flexibility over a given adventure from increasing with every new vestige written.
Soel Griffin
10-01-07, 03:40 AM Very cool binder variant, InkBlot! Thanx!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SilentMan 09-30-07, 09:10 AM	How would this affect play balance ? 1. Binder can have as many Vestiges as bound as he wants. 2. There are eight levels of vestige; each one requires a certain binder level for the binder to call that level of vestige.This still applies. 3. Ignore Special Requirements feat is disallowed.
InkBlot 09-30-07, 02:29 PM	Let me get this straight. Under your proposal 7th level binder could have Buer, Andras, Agares, Eurynome, Tenebrous, Aym, Leraje, Naberious, Ronove, Dahlver-Nar, Haagenti, Malphas, Savnok, Andromalius, Focalor, Karsus, and Paimon all bound at the same time? No way. That's utterly broken! You'd have fast healing, you take half damage from all attacks, you have infinite CLW, free +1 fullplate that you can move at full speed in, +10 to your base speed, DR 2/piercing and lawful, anyone who hits you in melee takes 1d6 fire damage, you have 4d6 sneak attack/sudden strike, a free large (2d6) +1 warhammer that you can wield in one hand, you can walk on water, uncanny dodge, free Whirlwind Attack feat. And that's not even scratching the surface! Any round you're not full power attacking you're forcing your enemy to take half your injuries, shooting lightning, breathing blinding clouds of tears, commanding your foes to flee, moving up to your speed and attacking everyone in your path, dispelling magic, etc. And all of this can be done at will, or at worst once every five rounds. And you still have 3/4 BAB, a d8 HD, and binding augments. No. The only thing balancing binders is the fact that they can't have access to all these effects at once.
SilentMan 09-30-07, 03:25 PM	No way. That's utterly broken! I thought so.But since nobody had asked this before. Could it work in a setting with where other spellcasters get Recharge Magic-variant.
InkBlot 09-30-07, 04:29 PM	No, even then you'd be vastly more powerful than anybody else of the same level. Doubling the number of vestiges you can bind at once could work in a Gestalt game. So at 1st level you could bind two at once, and at 8th you could bind four at once. edit: If you want more versatility in your binders, you could try the following variant. Gains: The ability to expel a vestige at any time. This functions as Expel Vestige feat, but you can use it as many times in a day as you wish, and you take a -2 penalty to your next binding check instead of a -10. Each time you expel another vestige in the same day, you take an additional -2 penalty. If you fail your check to expel a vestige, you show it's sign and influence and can not attempt to expel it again for one hour. For example, Riangee the 5th level binder has a +8 binding check modifier. In the morning she binds Malphas so that she can scout the trail ahead of her. Several hours later she is about to enter a dangerous dungeon, so she expels Malphas and binds Savnok with a -2 penalty to her binding check. After battling her way through the dungeon, she comes to a magically locked door. She expels Savnok and binds Karsus with a -4 penalty to her binding check. Loses: Access to all vestiges. A binder only knows how to summon a limited number of vestiges. At 1st level she starts with knowledge of two vestiges of her choice. At every level after 1st she gains knowledge of one additional vestige, of any level up to the highest level vestige she can summon. A binder is still limited to binding one vestige at a time, until 8th level. For example, Riangee the 5th level binder knows how to summon seven different vestiges; Aym, Larje, Ronove, Malphas, Savnok, and Karsus. This variant was originally intended for games which use a greater variety of vestiges than presented in the ToM; vestiges from web enhancements, Dragon and Dungeon magazines, and threads on this board such as Let's Make Some New Vestiges. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=606718) It prevents every binder from feeling too similar to one another, and it gives binders more flexibility over a given day while keeping their flexibility over a given adventure from increasing with every new vestige written.
Soel Griffin 10-01-07, 03:40 AM	Very cool binder variant, InkBlot! Thanx!