Changing Items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changing Items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mercurywyrm
12-02-04, 04:40 AM Well I have been thinking recently about item creation and designing some items for my homebrew campaign, and one of the things that has been bothering me is that the god/godess of the elves in my campain is supposed to transform bettween day and night and I want many elven items to do so as well, but I am unsure how to price them I have though about reducing the cost because the effect is similar to curesed items or items that only function for specific people at times and at other times but it does have multiple funtions, here are some items to give an exaple, sans the price:

Periphat of the Sun and Moon:
This glittering necklass is covered with many transparent crystals, a center one surrounded by smaller ones, during the day the center one appears yellowish and seems warm to the touch and the surrounding ones appear blueish or greyish on a cloudy day, but at night the surrounding ones apear black but very shiny and the center one appears a milky white. Its effects are also different depending on whether it is the day or night:
During the day it grants:
+2 enhancement to CON
Fire Resistance 10
Cure Moderate Wounds on wearer 2/day
and immunity to disease
During the night it grants:
+2 enhancement to DEX
Cold Resistance 10
Invisibility on wearer 2/day
and immunity to poison

Detects as Weak Abjuration and requires the spells Resist Energy, Cure Moderate Wounds, Cat's Grace, Bear's Endurance, Remove Disease, and Delay Poison, has a caster level of 5

And a nice weapon, the Elven Skyblade:
This famous weapon was weilded by many great heros among elves and their allies, there are actually multiple elven skyblades but they are rare as the skills needed to create one are great. The elven skyblade allways funtions as a +4 scimitar(elves weild scimitars instead of longswords in my setting), but during the day it also gains the flaming burst and ghost touch properties, and during the night it has instead the Frosty Burst and keen qualties.
Special note: this blade is made out of a combination of adamantine, mithril, and cold iron, for the purposes of dealing with DR treat it as a cold iron weapon, but for the purposes of sundering it or destroying it in some way treat it as adamantine, it weighs the same amount as a normal scimitar treat the base cost as if it were increased by all of these special material costs except keep the cost for having it enchanted as normal rathter than the cold iron costs as the method used to create it allows it to be enchanted normally.
Special note 2: This weapon, allthough not specifically aligned itself is generally accociated with good characters, if an evil character were to weild it it would be considered sacrilige by much of the elven people and the hunting of the evil dooer who weilds it would probably never cease untill they have been permanently banished and imprisoned on lowest planes possible. Elven vengence is cunning, patient, and undying.

And an item not based on elves or day/night in fact is is a minor artifact:
Ring of the Four Seasons
This ring was created by a powerfull druid, it grants a different benifit during different seasons:
During Spring it grants a wearer painless and uncomplicated childbirth(if they happen to give birth in the spring for some reason), charm animals 1/day, and gives the wearer a +2 enhancement bonus to Charisma.
During the Summer it gives the wearer the ability to only need to drink half the amont they normally do, immunity to sunburn, and subdual damage from sever heat as well as a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength.
During the Fall it grants the wearer pass without trace at will and a +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity.
During the Winter it gives the wearer the ability to only need to eat half the amount they normally do, grants them immunity to subdual damage due to extreme cold, and a +2 enhancement bonus to Constitution.
It detects as a powerfull enchantment and abjuration, and is seemingly indestructable most of the time, the only times this ring may be destroyed are during periods of naturally (not magically or conciously induced) occuring abnormal weather for the area it is in during the season going on.
Seeker95
12-02-04, 10:42 AM Interesting concept, and I like it.

As long as you make the powers roughly equivalent (same enhancement equivalency for armor and weapons) I think it is fine. It doubles "what" the weapon can do, but not in any manner that changes what it can do at any given time.

Dichotomous Nature
This +1 equivalent weapon and armor enhancement grants no power in and of itself. However, it allows a weapon (or armor) to have pairs of equal enhancement abilities priced as a single enhancement. The condition is that these pairs cannot be present in the item at the same time. The presence of one power negates the presence of the other. Typically, which power is present is defined by external sources:

Some examples of dichotomous natures:
Flame blade from dawn to dusk; (or spring equinox to autumn equinox)
Frost blade from dusk to dawn. (or autumn equinox to spring equinox)

Other dichotomies: Indoors/Outdoors
Gender of possessor/target/attacker
Alignment of possessor/target/attacker
Above Ground/Underground
On land/At sea
Waxing Moon/Waning Moon
Above 50 degrees / Below 50 degrees
Above Freezing / Below Freezing
Urban/Rural
Armed/Unarmed target/possessor/attacker
Mounted/Unmounted

Items that do not use the "enhancement equivalent" system can also use this feature at a 25% increase to the price of the more expensive of the paired abilities. For example, a lantern that sheds daylight at night and darkness during the day (a wonderful tool for thos eon the nightshift) would be charged for the price of daylight +25% rather than having to pay for both powers.
pyk
12-02-04, 11:15 AM Another example dichotomy could be:
light [or no] armor/medium [or heavy] armor
Seeker95
12-02-04, 01:29 PM Another example dichotomy could be:
light [or no] armor/medium [or heavy] armorI am not directly disagreeing with this suggestion, but rather suggesting a generalization that may counter it anyway.

I would avoid making dichotomies along conditions that the owner can "control" with ease. I just get an image of players trying to increase the use of their weapons by making them "flame" when used in the right hand and "frost" when used in the left hand.

I would prefer dichotomies that are largely outside the owner's control.
mercurywyrm
12-02-04, 03:06 PM Thanks, I think your pricing ideas are good! :D A +1 equivalent bonus or a +25% increase based on the cost of the best side of the dichotomy seems appropriate. What about things that work in more than just dichotomies though, such as an item that works differently in the hands of an elf than it does in the hands of a dwarf, and works differently still in the hands of a human? Would you apply the 25% a number of times equal to the total variations or once for all of them or would it be a different way of pricing it alltogether?
tarkin
12-02-04, 03:31 PM I like the uncontrolled item, but please note that a +1 weapon/armor enchantment is more like double the cost, so making it 25% for non weapons/armor seems silly.

I would not allow an easily controllable enchantment - no left/right or even light armor/heavy armor.
mercurywyrm
12-02-04, 03:46 PM I like the uncontrolled item, but please note that a +1 weapon/armor enchantment is more like double the cost, so making it 25% for non weapons/armor seems silly.

I would not allow an easily controllable enchantment - no left/right or even light armor/heavy armor.
Yes, but armors and weapons tend to have high costs for simple stuff like that, for instance, ghost touch, which is a non-issue against most opponents, will do the same, keen doesn't do anything to crit immune opponents (unless you have a burst weapon) and there are pently of those at high levels and doesn't even stack with improved crit feat, making a keen weapon overpriced for a character with improved crit for that weapon type.

And yes, I wouldn't allow easily controllable ones either. It would be limited to things mostly predetermined such as time based things, location based things, or character based things (ie, elf or not elf, male or female, good or evil). Allthough with good UMD checks I may allow the item to be tricked in some cases for some things, such as in the area of a daylight spell at night a UMD check could be used to try and trick an item that functions differently bettween day and night that it is actually daytime, or a character under the effect of alter self could try and UMD trick the item into beliving that they are actually what race they turned into.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mercurywyrm 12-02-04, 04:40 AM	Well I have been thinking recently about item creation and designing some items for my homebrew campaign, and one of the things that has been bothering me is that the god/godess of the elves in my campain is supposed to transform bettween day and night and I want many elven items to do so as well, but I am unsure how to price them I have though about reducing the cost because the effect is similar to curesed items or items that only function for specific people at times and at other times but it does have multiple funtions, here are some items to give an exaple, sans the price: Periphat of the Sun and Moon: This glittering necklass is covered with many transparent crystals, a center one surrounded by smaller ones, during the day the center one appears yellowish and seems warm to the touch and the surrounding ones appear blueish or greyish on a cloudy day, but at night the surrounding ones apear black but very shiny and the center one appears a milky white. Its effects are also different depending on whether it is the day or night: During the day it grants: +2 enhancement to CON Fire Resistance 10 Cure Moderate Wounds on wearer 2/day and immunity to disease During the night it grants: +2 enhancement to DEX Cold Resistance 10 Invisibility on wearer 2/day and immunity to poison Detects as Weak Abjuration and requires the spells Resist Energy, Cure Moderate Wounds, Cat's Grace, Bear's Endurance, Remove Disease, and Delay Poison, has a caster level of 5 And a nice weapon, the Elven Skyblade: This famous weapon was weilded by many great heros among elves and their allies, there are actually multiple elven skyblades but they are rare as the skills needed to create one are great. The elven skyblade allways funtions as a +4 scimitar(elves weild scimitars instead of longswords in my setting), but during the day it also gains the flaming burst and ghost touch properties, and during the night it has instead the Frosty Burst and keen qualties. Special note: this blade is made out of a combination of adamantine, mithril, and cold iron, for the purposes of dealing with DR treat it as a cold iron weapon, but for the purposes of sundering it or destroying it in some way treat it as adamantine, it weighs the same amount as a normal scimitar treat the base cost as if it were increased by all of these special material costs except keep the cost for having it enchanted as normal rathter than the cold iron costs as the method used to create it allows it to be enchanted normally. Special note 2: This weapon, allthough not specifically aligned itself is generally accociated with good characters, if an evil character were to weild it it would be considered sacrilige by much of the elven people and the hunting of the evil dooer who weilds it would probably never cease untill they have been permanently banished and imprisoned on lowest planes possible. Elven vengence is cunning, patient, and undying. And an item not based on elves or day/night in fact is is a minor artifact: Ring of the Four Seasons This ring was created by a powerfull druid, it grants a different benifit during different seasons: During Spring it grants a wearer painless and uncomplicated childbirth(if they happen to give birth in the spring for some reason), charm animals 1/day, and gives the wearer a +2 enhancement bonus to Charisma. During the Summer it gives the wearer the ability to only need to drink half the amont they normally do, immunity to sunburn, and subdual damage from sever heat as well as a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength. During the Fall it grants the wearer pass without trace at will and a +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity. During the Winter it gives the wearer the ability to only need to eat half the amount they normally do, grants them immunity to subdual damage due to extreme cold, and a +2 enhancement bonus to Constitution. It detects as a powerfull enchantment and abjuration, and is seemingly indestructable most of the time, the only times this ring may be destroyed are during periods of naturally (not magically or conciously induced) occuring abnormal weather for the area it is in during the season going on.
Seeker95 12-02-04, 10:42 AM	Interesting concept, and I like it. As long as you make the powers roughly equivalent (same enhancement equivalency for armor and weapons) I think it is fine. It doubles "what" the weapon can do, but not in any manner that changes what it can do at any given time. Dichotomous Nature This +1 equivalent weapon and armor enhancement grants no power in and of itself. However, it allows a weapon (or armor) to have pairs of equal enhancement abilities priced as a single enhancement. The condition is that these pairs cannot be present in the item at the same time. The presence of one power negates the presence of the other. Typically, which power is present is defined by external sources: Some examples of dichotomous natures: Flame blade from dawn to dusk; (or spring equinox to autumn equinox) Frost blade from dusk to dawn. (or autumn equinox to spring equinox) Other dichotomies: Indoors/Outdoors Gender of possessor/target/attacker Alignment of possessor/target/attacker Above Ground/Underground On land/At sea Waxing Moon/Waning Moon Above 50 degrees / Below 50 degrees Above Freezing / Below Freezing Urban/Rural Armed/Unarmed target/possessor/attacker Mounted/Unmounted Items that do not use the "enhancement equivalent" system can also use this feature at a 25% increase to the price of the more expensive of the paired abilities. For example, a lantern that sheds daylight at night and darkness during the day (a wonderful tool for thos eon the nightshift) would be charged for the price of daylight +25% rather than having to pay for both powers.
pyk 12-02-04, 11:15 AM	Another example dichotomy could be: light [or no] armor/medium [or heavy] armor
Seeker95 12-02-04, 01:29 PM	Another example dichotomy could be: light [or no] armor/medium [or heavy] armorI am not directly disagreeing with this suggestion, but rather suggesting a generalization that may counter it anyway. I would avoid making dichotomies along conditions that the owner can "control" with ease. I just get an image of players trying to increase the use of their weapons by making them "flame" when used in the right hand and "frost" when used in the left hand. I would prefer dichotomies that are largely outside the owner's control.
mercurywyrm 12-02-04, 03:06 PM	Thanks, I think your pricing ideas are good! :D A +1 equivalent bonus or a +25% increase based on the cost of the best side of the dichotomy seems appropriate. What about things that work in more than just dichotomies though, such as an item that works differently in the hands of an elf than it does in the hands of a dwarf, and works differently still in the hands of a human? Would you apply the 25% a number of times equal to the total variations or once for all of them or would it be a different way of pricing it alltogether?
tarkin 12-02-04, 03:31 PM	I like the uncontrolled item, but please note that a +1 weapon/armor enchantment is more like double the cost, so making it 25% for non weapons/armor seems silly. I would not allow an easily controllable enchantment - no left/right or even light armor/heavy armor.
mercurywyrm 12-02-04, 03:46 PM	I like the uncontrolled item, but please note that a +1 weapon/armor enchantment is more like double the cost, so making it 25% for non weapons/armor seems silly. I would not allow an easily controllable enchantment - no left/right or even light armor/heavy armor. Yes, but armors and weapons tend to have high costs for simple stuff like that, for instance, ghost touch, which is a non-issue against most opponents, will do the same, keen doesn't do anything to crit immune opponents (unless you have a burst weapon) and there are pently of those at high levels and doesn't even stack with improved crit feat, making a keen weapon overpriced for a character with improved crit for that weapon type. And yes, I wouldn't allow easily controllable ones either. It would be limited to things mostly predetermined such as time based things, location based things, or character based things (ie, elf or not elf, male or female, good or evil). Allthough with good UMD checks I may allow the item to be tricked in some cases for some things, such as in the area of a daylight spell at night a UMD check could be used to try and trick an item that functions differently bettween day and night that it is actually daytime, or a character under the effect of alter self could try and UMD trick the item into beliving that they are actually what race they turned into.