Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SSJDillius 07-17-04, 11:36 PM	I've been wondering... if something was already charmed by you, such as with Charm person but not Dominate Person, would that affect how susceptible they were to a suggestion spell from the same caster? perhaps there would be a penalty to their saves? Or simply they would be more inclined, as by DM's decision, to believe the suggestion as a reasonable thing since you appear as a friend to them?
smrtgmp 07-17-04, 11:57 PM	If you have them dominated, you could command them to submit to the next spell you cast, although they would probably get a save to resist the command if they had reason to believe the spell in question could be hazardous to their health. If they were under the affects of a charm spell, they would probably believe you if you told them you were casting a benefitiall spell, and so would happily submit to the suggestion.
SSJDillius 07-18-04, 12:17 AM	Well for the purposes I am considering that the charmed person doesn't know they are having a suggestion cast on them... would they still technically realize that the "idea in their head" came from "their friend". I would be led to believe so, as enemies know that the suggestion you give them is coming from someone they MAY not be able to trust... which is why it is a Suggestion, not a sure thing.
Edymnion 07-18-04, 12:41 AM	You don't need Charm and Suggestion, you just need Hypnotism. Hypnotise them. Give them the suggestion that you are trustworthy. They will now be 2 steps more friendly with you in regards to that one suggestion. Even when the spell ends, they keep their new attitude. Its not magical, you have just permanently changed their attitude. Cast Hypnotism again, and give them the same suggestion. Keep doing that until they hit Fanatical about trusting you. Then you can get them to do anything you want. If nothing else, you just get them to believe that you are casting beneficial spells on them, and have them voluntarily fail their save. Hypnotise them with any other suggestion you can think of. And best part is, its all permanent, can't be dispelled, and if they fail their save, they don't even remember that you did anything to them. They will remember a Charm spell, however. Sorcerer with Hypnotism can essentially Dominate an entire town, if given enough time.
Bloodtide_the_Red 07-18-04, 06:07 AM	As far as casting Suggestion on someone you have already charmed...there is no real benefit. A charmed person thinks your their 'best freind', they will already more or less follow whatever reasonable suggestions you make anyway. The spell is just overkill, and does not realy help much anyway. The only way it could help is the tiny gray area, but that depends on how you do Charms in your game. For example, if you do Charms as 'the person follows your commands like a robot', then you don't have to bother. If you do charms as 'they always listen to you, unless you go against thier way of thinking' or 'the react to you like you a simply a freind'. With the first one you could have a LG paladin walk away from a burning school house, but the second and third he would ignore you. So in that case it would take a suggestion spell to get the Pally away from the buliding, like 'you should go find some more water' or such. BT
Thermanshs 07-18-04, 06:27 AM	I'd say placing suggestion on a person friendly to you (charm makes the creature friendly) imposes a -2 penalty on its save...if that person is helpful then you can very easily bluff him for a voluntary save failure.