Charm Monster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Charm Monster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shadowfax7
04-28-07, 10:12 AM A PC in my campaign has charmed a gargantuan Sea Serpent with Charm Monster. The charm wears off in 2 days, he wants to re-charm the creature prior to the charm wearing off.

I am considering ruling that the present charm is automatically broken due to the subsequent act of charming the creature being an act that threatens the charmed creature, and thus breaks the spell. If the creature fails the save, it's charmed again, if not the first charm is broken and it is not charmed from the subsequent charm.

FYI, the creature has an Int of 6, it is not of the animal-type. It is more akin to a magical beast.

Here is the excerpt from the Charm Person spell which I am planning to make my ruling from:

The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell. You must speak the person’s language to communicate your commands, or else be good at pantomiming.

Opinions ??
jaelis
04-28-07, 12:54 PM It sounds reasonable to me to say that casting charm monster is a hostile act that would end the spell. But on the other hand, the character could tell the monster that he is going to cast a beneficial spell on it, and ask it to voluntarily fail its save. I'd probably require a bluff check to make that work.

Also, don't overplay the charm spell. The monster should treat the PC as a friend, but not as a boss. Did the PC provide a sensible reason for the sea monster to be following him around like this? And unless the party is acting in a way that matches the monster's alignment and needs, it would probably part ways, just like you would do with a friend that isn't doing something you're interested in.
Shadowfax7
04-28-07, 01:21 PM It sounds reasonable to me to say that casting charm monster is a hostile act that would end the spell. But on the other hand, the character could tell the monster that he is going to cast a beneficial spell on it, and ask it to voluntarily fail its save. I'd probably require a bluff check to make that work.I thought about the Bluff check, and would allow it. However, this is a magical beast with an Int of 6 and thus I would impose a -4 on the Bluff check because it should be harder to bluff an animal or magical beast.

Also, don't overplay the charm spell. The monster should treat the PC as a friend, but not as a boss. Did the PC provide a sensible reason for the sea monster to be following him around like this? And unless the party is acting in a way that matches the monster's alignment and needs, it would probably part ways, just like you would do with a friend that isn't doing something you're interested in.I actually ruled that the sea serpent followed the ship that the PC is on, as I felt that is what it would do.
temparus2000
04-28-07, 02:53 PM In my campaign there is a hard rule that re-charming a charmed creature is a hostile act on the grounds that you're trying to make the creature do something it wouldn't normaly do (bending to your will). Also, why has the serpent been following the ship for days? "follow me wherever I go for days with no benefit to you" is a stretch of the powers of charm.
Shadowfax7
04-28-07, 03:59 PM In my campaign there is a hard rule that re-charming a charmed creature is a hostile act on the grounds that you're trying to make the creature do something it wouldn't normaly do (bending to your will). Also, why has the serpent been following the ship for days? "follow me wherever I go for days with no benefit to you" is a stretch of the powers of charm.Don't worry about the sea serpent following the ship, I ruled that way for reasons in the storyline. The ship hasn't been in the seas all that time, it beached on a wild island with plenty of "game" around it in the seas.

However, thanx for your input. It confirms how I will rule upon the subsequent charming.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadowfax7 04-28-07, 10:12 AM	A PC in my campaign has charmed a gargantuan Sea Serpent with Charm Monster. The charm wears off in 2 days, he wants to re-charm the creature prior to the charm wearing off. I am considering ruling that the present charm is automatically broken due to the subsequent act of charming the creature being an act that threatens the charmed creature, and thus breaks the spell. If the creature fails the save, it's charmed again, if not the first charm is broken and it is not charmed from the subsequent charm. FYI, the creature has an Int of 6, it is not of the animal-type. It is more akin to a magical beast. Here is the excerpt from the Charm Person spell which I am planning to make my ruling from: The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell. You must speak the person’s language to communicate your commands, or else be good at pantomiming. Opinions ??
jaelis 04-28-07, 12:54 PM	It sounds reasonable to me to say that casting charm monster is a hostile act that would end the spell. But on the other hand, the character could tell the monster that he is going to cast a beneficial spell on it, and ask it to voluntarily fail its save. I'd probably require a bluff check to make that work. Also, don't overplay the charm spell. The monster should treat the PC as a friend, but not as a boss. Did the PC provide a sensible reason for the sea monster to be following him around like this? And unless the party is acting in a way that matches the monster's alignment and needs, it would probably part ways, just like you would do with a friend that isn't doing something you're interested in.
Shadowfax7 04-28-07, 01:21 PM	It sounds reasonable to me to say that casting charm monster is a hostile act that would end the spell. But on the other hand, the character could tell the monster that he is going to cast a beneficial spell on it, and ask it to voluntarily fail its save. I'd probably require a bluff check to make that work.I thought about the Bluff check, and would allow it. However, this is a magical beast with an Int of 6 and thus I would impose a -4 on the Bluff check because it should be harder to bluff an animal or magical beast. Also, don't overplay the charm spell. The monster should treat the PC as a friend, but not as a boss. Did the PC provide a sensible reason for the sea monster to be following him around like this? And unless the party is acting in a way that matches the monster's alignment and needs, it would probably part ways, just like you would do with a friend that isn't doing something you're interested in.I actually ruled that the sea serpent followed the ship that the PC is on, as I felt that is what it would do.
temparus2000 04-28-07, 02:53 PM	In my campaign there is a hard rule that re-charming a charmed creature is a hostile act on the grounds that you're trying to make the creature do something it wouldn't normaly do (bending to your will). Also, why has the serpent been following the ship for days? "follow me wherever I go for days with no benefit to you" is a stretch of the powers of charm.
Shadowfax7 04-28-07, 03:59 PM	In my campaign there is a hard rule that re-charming a charmed creature is a hostile act on the grounds that you're trying to make the creature do something it wouldn't normaly do (bending to your will). Also, why has the serpent been following the ship for days? "follow me wherever I go for days with no benefit to you" is a stretch of the powers of charm.Don't worry about the sea serpent following the ship, I ruled that way for reasons in the storyline. The ship hasn't been in the seas all that time, it beached on a wild island with plenty of "game" around it in the seas. However, thanx for your input. It confirms how I will rule upon the subsequent charming.