Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Skye Silverleaf 08-15-05, 12:40 PM	The players in our on-line campaign are spying through a hole in a stage to a hidden room beneath the stage. There is enough noise in the tavern that there is little chance of being overheard. In the room is a victim, tied to a chair, a rich-looking man and two hired thugs. The wizard cast Charm Person on one of the Thugs (They are within range, being directly below the party), who failed his save. The wizard then cast Message , and relayed whispered instructions to the charmed thug. Would this work? Does the victim of Charm Person have to see the spellcaster in order to follow the instructions. The wizard only told the thug that the woman should not be harmed, and should be protected. He has stated that he only wants to get the bad guys arguing, in order to buy the party some time to reach the room via the back stairs. I think it's clever, but I'm not sure if it is a sound idea from a rules standpoint. Any opinions?
Puca 08-15-05, 12:53 PM	My opinion: He might not know who was talking to him, but he does precievie it as coming from a "trusted friend and ally" and interprets them in "in the most favorable way." It might be pushing the rules, but there is nothing in either of those spell descriptions that says or even implies that this wont work. That being said, the charmed person doesnt necessarily follow the casters instructions either.
Skye Silverleaf 08-15-05, 02:15 PM	Thanks for the opinion. The wizard succeeded in an opposed will check, so the combination of spells has been allowed. If anyone else has an opinion, please post it, as I have the feeling this may come up again.
Bloodtide_the_Red 08-16-05, 05:46 AM	1.The players in our on-line campaign are spying through a hole in a stage to a hidden room beneath the stage.....wizard cast Charm Person on one of the Thugs (They are within range, being directly below the party). If your talking about a 'hole' as in 'a tiny pea sized opening', this would not have worked. That is not enough Line of Effect. Such an opening would need to be at least one foot square for the spell to get through, going by the rules. You can cast a spell through a doorway or window, but a 'mail slot' or 'peakhole' is way too small. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. Does the victim of Charm Person have to see the spellcaster in order to follow the instructions. No. They would know the voice of thier 'best freind', of course. BT
Mediator 08-16-05, 05:47 AM	Basically a charmed person does not follow instructions. She won't harm you unless you harm her. Definitely she would not harm (or work against) another friend (companion or thug leader). Charm person is a rather poor combat spell when you want the victim to do something (you will need compulsions for that, not charms). Charm person is a good start for roleplaying and it can put one person out of combat ("don't hurt me an my buddies"). As for the situation: When the wizard states in his whispered message that it is him (the friendly wizard) and does not give orders but some reasoning (don't harm her, we could probably sell her for a good price, but only when untouched, protect her, it's your money, etc.), it definitely should work.
smrtgmp 08-16-05, 07:28 AM	Basically a charmed person does not follow instructions. Then why does the spell provide rules for giving a charmed individual orders? Besides, who said you have to state your instructions in the form of an order? You can be chaming and coersive instead (pretty please with a cherry on top, and all that jazz). Definitely she would not harm (or work against) another friend (companion or thug leader). This is also up for debate, as it depends heavily on the target's alignment and personality. If they are jealous of the thug leader's position, then a charm might be just the nudge they need to act on their subconcius desires. If they are only there for the money, then it should be easy to sway their alliance with a charm and promise of coin. Etc, etc. I would have let it work, regardless of the official ruling on line of effect. A 1 foot hole seems pretty arbitrary, IMO.
Ut-Napishtim 08-16-05, 08:03 AM	This is also up for debate, as it depends heavily on the target's alignment and personality. If they are jealous of the thug leader's position, then a charm might be just the nudge they need to act on their subconcius desires. If they are only there for the money, they it should be easy to sway their alliance with a charm and promise of coin. I was actually going to post something like this myself. Especially with CE creatures who are kept in order with bullying and intimidation. The way to the top is more often than not through killing anyone who gets in your way, or is between you and that position. A charmed CE creature could easily see it as the voice of his "friend" encouraging him to grab the brass ring while the moment is right.