Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SolkaTruesilver 09-24-06, 01:25 AM	Hi everyone. I know this topic should have popped up quite often, but maybe I missed it when I shuffled through all this sub-forum. I want to know, what happens to a character when a "Charm Person" (or monster, let's not split hairs) wears off? If the spell is dispelled because the caster have done something bad to the target (like intentionnal harm), then off course, I guess the target would guess he's been manipulated. Specially if the caster was a wizard who done a weird spellcasting effort. But I would ask for an intelligence check for anyone who's been charmed by a sorcerer or bard, since there is no direct indication of any spell cast. However, it would always know he's been manipulated somehow. (I ask you to comment on this) The other side of the problem is, what happens if the spell reaches it's limit duration? Does the target automaticly reverse back to it's mind setting before the casting? Or does he keep the "friendly" attitude, until something changes his mind? If the caster simply cast Charm Person on a guard, to pass a bridge. 6 hours later, when the spell wears off, do the guard suddenly has a big change of mind? If I charm an ennemy during a battle battle, and convinced him that "we're good ol' childhood friends", and I asked my party to spare his life (with a nice bluff check), and he beleives the story, and I REALLY care for my "prisonner/friend" well-being, even making difficulties to make sure he'll be safe even if he betrayed his former boss. How would the man react when the Charm Person ends? If I play a warlock, and I charmed a Cohort to follow me around. I treat him very well, take care of him, bla-bla-bla.. but I temporary use my Charm Invocation on someone else, to "smoothes" access to some informations. Does my now-uncharmed cohort turn automaticly on me, or do I need to do something wrong before he does?
smrtgmp 09-24-06, 06:56 AM	This is going to depend a lot on the DM. As far as I'm concerned, there is not single right answer, as there are several mitigating factors involved. I'll give a brief synopsis of how I handle charm spells in my game, and hopefully it will be of some use to you. First of all, you have to take the history between the caster and the target into account. If the target hated your guts prior to the casting of the spell, then they're going to hate you when the spell runs out. There is simply too much past drama for it to work out any other way. On the other hand, if you charm them sureptitiously prior to ever meeting them (say you used silent spell or sleight of hand (see the alternate rules for SoH in Races of Stone for details) from around a corner), things might turn out differently. If you treat them well while they are charmed, then when the spell runs out they will have no recoleciton of you being anything but the nicest guy they've ever met. As such, there is a good chance you just made a life-long friend. Another factor is the length of time you've had them charmed. If you manage to keep them under the sway of your spell for days/weeks/months/years (extend spell keep a charm going for over a day at a time once you hit levels 12 and up; repeat daily) at a time, and treat them well during said interval, then your chances of them remaining loyal if and when the charm is dispelled increase dramatically. Agian, this comes back to establishing a history. I would apply this to your theoretical warlock. Again, this is all just my take on the matter. Different DMs will rule this differently. I have played in games where the target automatically reverts back to their initial disposition when the spell expires. I've also played in games where they automatically went hostile, but that never sat well with me, especially when the target would have no way to know in game that they had been charmed (especially if they have no ranks in spellcraft). I have used the above guidlines in my games for close to two decades now, and I've never had any problems with them. I feel that they are realistic (at least as far as magic is concerned) and follow the spirit of the rules, though I'm sure some would disagree. One of these days I'm going to have to finish my disertation on the commonly underestimated and easily misunderstood schoos of magic (enchantment, illusion, and divination) and see if I can get it stickied. Hope that helps. Happy gaming. :) edit: oh yeah. dont forget about the synergy between diplomacy and charm spells. It only takes a DC 20 diplomacy check to move someone from friendly to helpful.
Kyuketsukiouji 09-24-06, 03:50 PM	Same here. Charm doesn't confer amnesia. So, if the charm wears off, I check three things: 1- Does the target know he was charmed, or had a spell cast on him? 2- Did the target have a pre-existing attitude towards the character? and 3- How did the character treat the charm victim? If you cast charm on someone that didn't know you, hid the casting, and treated your target well (and took the time to play enough of an "introduction" to justify the good feeling), your target might simply keep the friendly attitude. On the other hand, if you openly cast a charm spell on a sworn enemy and have him kill some of his friends, well, he'll hate your guts even more...
Myree 09-26-06, 02:53 AM	Ditto. I always thought of coming out of it (either from a good or bad ending) from the IRL perspective of love gone wrong or a very bad drunk (and yes, one many times leads to the other!). You sit there and start asking yourself WHAT WAS I THINKING? and HOW COULD I DO/THINK/ACT LIKE THAT? Sure, you may convince yourself it was all someone else's fault, or that you had been manipulated (which IRL you probably were!), or maybe even "blacking out" the worst of it that you can't POSSIBLY believe you really did.