Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Neely 07-19-05, 05:21 AM	This is the scenario: You have an upset farmer and you cast Charm Person on him to be able to get some information out of him he wouldn't give otherwise. With the spell in progress he trusts you with any information he knows and he even invites you in. You have a nice chat and gather the information you need. You say goodbye and leave. The next day you return but the spell has worn off ofcourse. What would be the attitude of the farmer? Would he be upset with you once more? Or would he still have a more friendly attitude none the less--not like when the spell would be active though--even when the spell wore off? I imagine he hasn't forgotten you both were friends for moment. He might have find it odd afterwards, but that wouldn't remove the fact you haven't harmed him and seems trust worthy. At least he would be reasonable for negociations once more?
Zorminster 07-19-05, 08:16 AM	hmm, well i just checked the spell writeup and its a mind altering effect. It says that the target percieves your words in a friendly way. This said, it gives no real indication of aftermath but heres how i think it would happen. Charm wears off, person makes a sense motive check. I dont know what DC to make it, i suppose it could be affected by exactly what was done/said while they were charmed. If they pass, they realize they weren't acting normally and will probably take poorly to you. If they fail, they will regard you the same as before and write it off as "a brief moment of intelligence and logic" by your group. If they fail by 10 or more, they become friendly and are converted to your way of thinking. Thats how i would deal with it personally.
kjenks 07-19-05, 08:51 AM	That's close. Instead of Sense Motive, the farmer would need to make a Spellcraft check to figure out he wasn't acting under his own volition. Spellcraft is trained only. There was a girl once who convinced me to do some things I didn't really want to do. Was I affected by a spell or by teenage hormones? I don't have any ranks in Spellcraft, so I'll never know. (But it sure was fun at the time.)
tarkin 07-19-05, 08:52 AM	1) If you succed on making a saving throw, you also realize that some one cast a spell on you. 2) If you fail a save, you have no idea you were under a spell. Question, have you ever been taken in by a con man/ really effective salesman? I have, four times. I see it as a similar type feeling. It is "God that ******* was convincing, I can't believe I fell for it", not "He must have used magic on me.
Neely 07-20-05, 09:35 AM	There was a girl once who convinced me to do some things I didn't really want to do. Was I affected by a spell or by teenage hormones? I don't have any ranks in Spellcraft, so I'll never know. (But it sure was fun at the time.) :rofl: Thanks for the clear answers! :D
Feather 07-25-05, 10:10 AM	The spell description REALLY needs to illuminate on what happens after the spell duration, my groups have experienced confusion and DM calls multiple times because of the 'after-charm' effect. I run it that ignorant people go about their business, magic-wise people get ******.
solbergb 07-25-05, 11:28 AM	One thing to consider. Yes, he probably would assume he was just conned, unless of course the guy who conned him looks like a spellcaster, muttered and waved his hands before he became so convincing etc. Spellcraft gets it for sure, with sufficient roll But you have to consider that spellcasters are as normal as, say, politicians in our world. It wouldn't surprise me at all if a successfull politician proved able to chat me up at a party, learn all kinds of stuff about me and make me like him, even if I hated his politics. I would, however, when out of his or her presence, assume it was his skill and experience at manipulating people that caused that reaction. In a D&D world, if a famous arcanist (or someone who has the telltale marks of one, starting with spell component pouch) chatted me up etc, I would assume I was charmed even if it was just the bard or sorcerer's winning personality. This would be especially true if he really didn't say much to change my mind, I just had a memory of suddenly liking him a lot more. Mothers would tell their children "if you suddenly like a stranger, and don't think to question it, you were probably enchanted." just like our parents tell us not to get into cars with strangers. It would be part of common knowledge. If magic is rare, or if the arcanist dressed up/disguised himself as, say, a warrior type, they might instead assume he's a paladin or some other persuasive warrior class.
smrtgmp 07-25-05, 12:49 PM	In my game it would depend on how you treated the farmer while he was charmed. If you treated him well, then he might think his change of heart was due to your friendly ways, and you would retain an ally of sorts (at the very least he would be indifferent rather than unfriendly). If you abused his trust or treated him poorly, then his attitude would return to its original state, if not lower. This is how I run things with charm, especially when the charmed individual and the caster dont have much of a history to work with. Assuming this was the first time you met the above farmer, most of your relationship would be post-charm when he concidered you a friend. As such, he wouldnt really have any reccolection of a time when he despised you or something. Now, if the charmed individual has known you for quite some time and really doesnt like you, then they will probably get suspicious when the spell wears off, at which point their attitude will return to where it was prior to the spell. This is how I've run charm spells for nearly 20 years, and its worked quite well for me. YMMV.