Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Emir 01-08-05, 02:44 PM	Well, just wondering, as I always argue about this, please clear it out...When I Charm someone, does that person forget about their other friends ? What happens if I charm someone in combat and I tell him to attack his friend (my enemy), will he do it ?
Elgonn 01-08-05, 02:52 PM	He doesn't forget his. He also won't attack his friends.
ThoughtfulOwl 01-08-05, 05:15 PM	Put it this way: in the mind of the victim, you become her friend #1. She won't forget her friends, but you most likely rank higher; at worst, you are on par with them. If you order her to attack her other friends, she will just act like anybode else whose friends are on two sides of a feud. Consider what you would do if your best friend #1 is hell bent on killing your best friend #2 and asks for your help: probably you would try to mediate between them, keep them apart or, in some cultures, ensure that their fight is a fair and honorable one.
Seeker95 01-08-05, 05:41 PM	Charm person affects how they feel about you. It does not give control. Suggestion is what you are looking for.
Nephlite 01-08-05, 06:09 PM	Well, just wondering, as I always argue about this, please clear it out...When I Charm someone, does that person forget about their other friends ? What happens if I charm someone in combat and I tell him to attack his friend (my enemy), will he do it ? You ask: What happens if I charm someone in combat and I tell him to attack his friend (my enemy), will he do it? Well they are more likely his freind too. So he might help you if you ask: Protect me so your other freinds don't hurt me. He won't kill his freinds to save a freind. That requires +4(he gets bonus) new save. Its against nature to kill freinds. He might grapple, bull rush, trip, knock out (nonlethal), and more but he won't kill for you if its a freind he is fighting. But he won't attack you.
BW0222 01-08-05, 07:09 PM	Emir, The easiest way to decide things is to say what you would do in the real world if your best friend asked you to do something. Things a best friend might do: * Give you a couple of gold. "Can you lend me a few bucks until pay day." * Keep you from harm. "Say some of your fellow friends are threatening me." * Give you some minor information. "What is it like in the police station where you clean up?" Things even a best friend typically won't do for you: * Break the law. "Say, let's do a drive buy shooting." * Put themselves at extreme risk. "Say, the police are outside, how about shooting a few of them while I get away." * Give you unreasonable amounts of money. "Say, why don't you sign over your house to me." * To something which might cost them a job, friend, loved-one, etc. "Say, how about turning the alarm at the police station off, give me a key, and let me know where they keep the explosives they seized last week?" Charms do not change ones alignment, beliefs, or compell actions. If you ask a best friend to attack another best friend or co-worker, he really isn't going to do that. However, you might expect him to put himself to break up a fight, or to put himself in between you and the other friend. At best, in combat, he might grapple the other person trying to attack you -- provided you aren't attacking them. The moment you do something which makes you appear not to be a friend -- friends don't ask friends to attack other friends -- then they get another save at +4 to break the charm. i.e. "Keep this lunatic away from me." is perfectly valid if one of their friends is attacking you. It isn't reasonable if the person isn't attacking you, or if you phrase it such as "Kill this person."
Bloodtide_the_Red 01-09-05, 12:37 AM	While everything BW0222 said it true, and will work nicely for 75% of folks....there is that other 25%. If your freinds are a group that does crimes together, then you will have no problem getting them to do a cirme. And some people would give up a job, freind or loved one for a 'best freind'. BT
Venom of the Yuan Ti 01-09-05, 08:39 AM	I wrote a hyerachy a few years ago to indicate were Charming leaves somone in my champain. 1st close loving family/adoptive family/orginisations that are like family. (inc spouses, perants Order Bretheren and siblings.) 2nd Life long freinds 3rd The Charmer 4th Close freinds 5th Others So a charmed Paladin will never betray his mentor, nor will a charmed barbarian betray his blood brothers, but they may risk losing close freinds.
Emir 01-09-05, 03:37 PM	Yeah, that's what I thought. I just wondered if I misread the spell or something. Thanks anyway. And I do employ Suggestion, Seeker :)