Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DM_of_doom 02-19-08, 07:29 PM	So, I've tried to find an answer to this question and haven't had any luck. The description under charm person states that the target gets a +5 bonus on the saving throw if he is being threatened by the caster or his allies. So, I would take this to mean whenever the target is in combat with the party, even if the party was not the instigator of the violence. What I mean is that it is typically the bad guys that are doing the threatening, so if the target is threatening the party, but the party has not engaged in combat yet, the bonus would not apply. Also, I'm really confused what to do with the +5 bonus in the instance of charm monster. An aggressive unintelligent monster is going to attack on sight typically, so unless you get the drop on one, it's hard to imagine an instance where the save would not apply in that case... Does anyone know if there's an official clarification on this?
Seeker95 02-19-08, 08:27 PM	You are correct in most of your assumptions. Charm person (and charm monster) is not an effective combat spell. If you are about to roll initiative, or have rolled initiative, there is a +5 to the save. Wanna charm an orc guard? Disguise yourself as an orc, walk up to the front door, and *then* charm him. Then bring out your friends and invite your new friend to show you around the place. Charm requires more subtlety than the majority of players are willing to invest. My summon-or-charm-or-run sorcerer loves this spell (and its cousins, charm monster, dominate person, and dominate monster). He's never had to pay for a room at an inn, usually gets the best table in the house, and has avoided jail by the simple testimony" of the captain of the guard on more than one occasion. Use charm to make an instant friend. Use real charm to keep them friendly.
1 ton ghost 02-20-08, 01:20 PM	it's difficult to negotiate "threat" and the like. typically, if weapons are out and suspicions are flaring, then yeah, gonna' get the bonus. some things to consider: -just because you charmed a person/monster, it does not mean it'll be cool w/ your party. ie)it's "friendly" towards the charmer/caster, not his crew. this should allow for perhaps a Cha or Diplomacy bonus to try and negotiate new relationships w/ these "other ppl", but if it's natural predilection is hostility, it woudl surely attack them, just not you. -Charm = Friendly disposition, not necessarilly Helpful on the reaction table. granted your chances to up them to aid, help, etc become increasingly easier given their new mindset, it does not mean they'll become incredibly generous and the like straight away.
DM_of_doom 02-26-08, 12:25 PM	Thanks. It probably doesn't help that in every D&D computer game I've ever played, charm person is implemented incorrectly (where the charmed individual immediately starts wailing away on his former allies).
ArcTan 02-26-08, 06:03 PM	As long as you're just standing there and not doing anything "threatening", it works. This isn't affected by "rolling initiative" itself -- initiative can be rolled when someone attacks *you* but you haven't done anything yet to defend yourself. If, for instance, an aggressive unintelligent monster attacks you and you win initiative and cast charm monster on the first round of combat, there isn't any +5 bonus to the save, because you haven't done anything to hurt the monster yet.