charm spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

charm spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mysticbadger
10-13-06, 05:14 PM I need advice on GMing the charm spells. Do people know they're charmed ? What happens after the spell ends ? What if the spell fails ? Do people see if the spell is cast ? People present too ?

Thanks in advance !
Seeker95
10-13-06, 05:58 PM 1. You "kinda know" you were charmed after it is over. However, in my campaign, how you were treated while you were charmed goes a long way toward mitigating how you would react to the "nagging feeling" that something wasn't quite right.

2. If the spell fails, you know someone tried to do something to you. Probably take a spellcraft check to figure out what, and maybe even who.

3. People see the caster casting the spell if s/he is not careful.
Molitor
10-13-06, 08:35 PM I need advice on GMing the charm spells. Do people know they're charmed ? What happens after the spell ends ? What if the spell fails ? Do people see if the spell is cast ? People present too ?

Thanks in advance !
Well for starters unless they have ranks in the skill spellcraft they will not know what spell it is or possibly that it's even a spell cast. The spell can be seen and heard when cast unless other circumstances(feats, noise, imp invis) alter this.

As to knowing whether they are charmed that's a tough call because it's sort of a paradox. The spell makes the victim treat him as his 'trusted friend', well my trusted friends would not cast charm on me so this caster can't be my trusted friend. Paradox.

And before you ask...it is only a first level spell so it shouldn't really be that powerful. And it would have you behave the same way as if your own trusted friend asked you to do something.
BW0222
10-13-06, 10:20 PM Mysticbadger,

>I need advice on GMing the charm spells.

Ok. In no particular order...

What if the spell fails ?

PHP 177, Succeeding on a Saving Throw. "A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effect feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack."

They know they were subjected to some type of magic. If they saw you cast, they can put two and two together. They might not know if it was a charm, detect thoughts, hold person, etc. but they know it wasn't beneficial. They are most likely going to react in a hostile fashion... attacking, calling the guards, fleeing, etc. depending upon the person and the situation.

Do people see if the spell is cast ?

Yes. If the spell has S components, they can see you cast. If it has V components, they can hear you casting. In rare cases, they might determine the spell by its material M components, they can see you take out the components. You typically do not worry about the later since they would be almost impossible to spot since they are so small and easily concealed in your hand.

Barring still and silent spell, casting unobtrustively is difficult. However, you could conceviably arrange a suitable distraction, you might be able to pull if off. Cast from say a back room with a concealed view of your target while everyone is watching a loud fight in the middle of the inn.

If someone sees a S spell, hears a V spell, or sees the component used in a M spell (not likely), and they have ranks in spellcraft, they may attempt a spellcraft check to determine the exact spell cast.

If some who suspects something is up might also try a spellcraft check to determine the spell already in effect. However, they would typically need to be suspicious to try this.

People present too ?

Anyone present who sees or hears the casting knows a spell was cast. Anyone (with spellcraft ranks) can attempt to determine the exact spell.

Do people know they're charmed ?

No. Charm spells won't make a creature do something they wouldn't normally do for a good friend. It does not make a creature an automaton.

If you attempt to take the person on a bank robery, they might refuse (because they won't rob banks even with their friend), but they still don't know they are charmed. However, that doesn't stop them from calling the authorities, leaving, altering the bank, etc.

What happens after the spell ends ?

That depends. They are may or may not be suspicous. They are likely to realize that they were treating a stranger pretty well, but that alone might not be enough to draw the conclusion.

If you took the person to the inn, had a lot of drinks, talked about their family, etc. and then sometime during the evening ask about his father's sword, he might not realize that he said something he wouldn't otherwise tell a stranger and thus not conclude he might have been charmed. On the other hand, if you walk up to a prisoner, charm him, tell him you know a way to free him if he tells you about his father's sword... I'm sure he is going to ask himself why he believed a stranger would let him go.
smrtgmp
10-13-06, 10:36 PM If you use any of the supplaments, please note that Races of Stone provides for subtle casting via sleight of hand. If such optional rules are used, any caster would be well advised to pick up at least a single rank.

Even if they have only a +1 modifier, their casting will be far more difficult to detect, as d20+1 (modified for range) v spot is far more likely to go unnoticed than 0 (modified for range) v listen check.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mysticbadger 10-13-06, 05:14 PM	I need advice on GMing the charm spells. Do people know they're charmed ? What happens after the spell ends ? What if the spell fails ? Do people see if the spell is cast ? People present too ? Thanks in advance !
Seeker95 10-13-06, 05:58 PM	1. You "kinda know" you were charmed after it is over. However, in my campaign, how you were treated while you were charmed goes a long way toward mitigating how you would react to the "nagging feeling" that something wasn't quite right. 2. If the spell fails, you know someone tried to do something to you. Probably take a spellcraft check to figure out what, and maybe even who. 3. People see the caster casting the spell if s/he is not careful.
Molitor 10-13-06, 08:35 PM	I need advice on GMing the charm spells. Do people know they're charmed ? What happens after the spell ends ? What if the spell fails ? Do people see if the spell is cast ? People present too ? Thanks in advance ! Well for starters unless they have ranks in the skill spellcraft they will not know what spell it is or possibly that it's even a spell cast. The spell can be seen and heard when cast unless other circumstances(feats, noise, imp invis) alter this. As to knowing whether they are charmed that's a tough call because it's sort of a paradox. The spell makes the victim treat him as his 'trusted friend', well my trusted friends would not cast charm on me so this caster can't be my trusted friend. Paradox. And before you ask...it is only a first level spell so it shouldn't really be that powerful. And it would have you behave the same way as if your own trusted friend asked you to do something.
BW0222 10-13-06, 10:20 PM	Mysticbadger, >I need advice on GMing the charm spells. Ok. In no particular order... What if the spell fails ? PHP 177, Succeeding on a Saving Throw. "A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effect feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack." They know they were subjected to some type of magic. If they saw you cast, they can put two and two together. They might not know if it was a charm, detect thoughts, hold person, etc. but they know it wasn't beneficial. They are most likely going to react in a hostile fashion... attacking, calling the guards, fleeing, etc. depending upon the person and the situation. Do people see if the spell is cast ? Yes. If the spell has S components, they can see you cast. If it has V components, they can hear you casting. In rare cases, they might determine the spell by its material M components, they can see you take out the components. You typically do not worry about the later since they would be almost impossible to spot since they are so small and easily concealed in your hand. Barring still and silent spell, casting unobtrustively is difficult. However, you could conceviably arrange a suitable distraction, you might be able to pull if off. Cast from say a back room with a concealed view of your target while everyone is watching a loud fight in the middle of the inn. If someone sees a S spell, hears a V spell, or sees the component used in a M spell (not likely), and they have ranks in spellcraft, they may attempt a spellcraft check to determine the exact spell cast. If some who suspects something is up might also try a spellcraft check to determine the spell already in effect. However, they would typically need to be suspicious to try this. People present too ? Anyone present who sees or hears the casting knows a spell was cast. Anyone (with spellcraft ranks) can attempt to determine the exact spell. Do people know they're charmed ? No. Charm spells won't make a creature do something they wouldn't normally do for a good friend. It does not make a creature an automaton. If you attempt to take the person on a bank robery, they might refuse (because they won't rob banks even with their friend), but they still don't know they are charmed. However, that doesn't stop them from calling the authorities, leaving, altering the bank, etc. What happens after the spell ends ? That depends. They are may or may not be suspicous. They are likely to realize that they were treating a stranger pretty well, but that alone might not be enough to draw the conclusion. If you took the person to the inn, had a lot of drinks, talked about their family, etc. and then sometime during the evening ask about his father's sword, he might not realize that he said something he wouldn't otherwise tell a stranger and thus not conclude he might have been charmed. On the other hand, if you walk up to a prisoner, charm him, tell him you know a way to free him if he tells you about his father's sword... I'm sure he is going to ask himself why he believed a stranger would let him go.
smrtgmp 10-13-06, 10:36 PM	If you use any of the supplaments, please note that Races of Stone provides for subtle casting via sleight of hand. If such optional rules are used, any caster would be well advised to pick up at least a single rank. Even if they have only a +1 modifier, their casting will be far more difficult to detect, as d20+1 (modified for range) v spot is far more likely to go unnoticed than 0 (modified for range) v listen check.