Charm uses? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Charm uses? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rerednaw
08-03-06, 08:35 PM Most of the Dungeons and Dragons authors (in works of fiction) turn Charm into a form of mind-control slavery. The text of the spell makes it seem well, rather weak.

Okay I'm a tank in mortal combat with a caster. He steps back, waves his hands, utters words of magic and suddenly he's my friend.

Let's sum up what this spell does and does not do:

The spell:

Does not erase your memory.

Does not turn your brain off.

Does not eliminate your ability to reason.

Does make the caster your friend.

Okay so there is obviously something wrong here. I spent the past several hours (or days) in this dungeon, dealing with lethal traps and denizens, all with the goal of defeating the evil overlord.

And now after he obviously cast a spell...he's my friend?

Or even if he casted the spell from secret. I've heard about charm spells, I know what they do. But that doesn't matter...uh...because he's my friend.

Maybe you cast this spell on merchants to get a better deal. Well even if they don't realize they are under the spell...'Yes, either I never met you or I have met you and you aren't my friend. But now suddenly you are.' I don't get it. And of course later on when it wears off...and you cast it again. I'd think my memory of what was happening would certainly make me suspicious.

So anyway...I was wondering who uses this spell and how?

Cheers.
CryoSilver
08-03-06, 09:01 PM Charm is good as a substitute for Suggestion, more than as a substitute for Dominate.

Like, trying to get into areas you shouldn't be in.

Guard: "Hey, you're not allowed in here!"
*charms guard*
Wizard: "Hey, I know, but consider it a favor, huh? You know I'd cover you, right? Right?"
Rerednaw
08-06-06, 01:20 AM Charm is good as a substitute for Suggestion, more than as a substitute for Dominate.

Like, trying to get into areas you shouldn't be in.

Guard: "Hey, you're not allowed in here!"
*charms guard*
Wizard: "Hey, I know, but consider it a favor, huh? You know I'd cover you, right? Right?"

Um..."You know I'm asking you to risk your job (or perhaps your life depending who your work for) but since you are a good friend, you'd let me pass right?"

Would you do this for a 'good friend?'

I think if it wasn't a risky proposition... Otherwise at best this guard wouldn't report you, but he still would not let you pass. And then later when the spell wore off...he'd report you.

I think I'd have better success putting a guard to sleep from 110 or more feet away. What guard is inclined to tell his boss that he fell asleep on duty?

Tough adjucating this spell.
Magicianguy131
08-06-06, 01:29 AM Charming makes them your friend. The whole guard thing is pretty much what it is. I was walking in the streets of Sharn (a large city in Ebberon) in the form of a pretty girl (Channgling!) and I came across this store that had a lovely little magical item (of which I cant remember) then a little shop caught my eye. I wanted to buy a lovely little wand of some sort but alas I didnt have enough money (grrr....500g to short!) so I charmed him (thank you silent and stilled metamagic!). He gave it to me 60% off! Thank you Charm Person and thank you expert class!

I could have dominated him but there were other people in the shop and people might have noticed a dwarf with a "dominate face" and it was funnier!
SageBahamut
08-06-06, 03:04 AM Yeah Charm can be a real headache. I would almost go so far as to say that it's like Jump or Glibness or those "+X to your next check" spells, in this case Diplomacy. Considering 50+ Diplomacy can turn someone from Hostile to Helpful, it seems like about the right level of kick.
OneWinged4ngel
08-06-06, 03:29 AM Ugh... Glibness... hurts... so... much...

The bard faces the big damn BBEG:
Bard: *casts glibness, has +50 or whatever Bluff now* "THE SKY IS FALLING!"
BBEG: "OH ****!!!"
Thiez
08-06-06, 07:57 AM Glibness rocks, yes. You can take that -20 penalty for totally unbelievable stuff and still get a bonus +10 from the spell.
CaoSlayer
08-06-06, 08:09 AM Considering that a mundane thing like acohol can erase your memory, turn your brain off, eliminate your ability to reason and "make friends" then it is safe to say that a spell like charm person should be more powerful.
Rerednaw
08-07-06, 08:55 AM Considering that a mundane thing like acohol can erase your memory, turn your brain off, eliminate your ability to reason and "make friends" then it is safe to say that a spell like charm person should be more powerful.

Okay.

This kind of 'alcohol' does NOT
Affect your ability to think or rationalize.
Does not affect your memory.

So it is like having the 'hey he's my drinking buddy' and being 100% sober at the same time.

I do like your analysis. If the Charm Person spell were changed to 'drunk friend spell' where their ability to think was compromised then the uses that everyone tries to put it to would work.

Cheers.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rerednaw 08-03-06, 08:35 PM	Most of the Dungeons and Dragons authors (in works of fiction) turn Charm into a form of mind-control slavery. The text of the spell makes it seem well, rather weak. Okay I'm a tank in mortal combat with a caster. He steps back, waves his hands, utters words of magic and suddenly he's my friend. Let's sum up what this spell does and does not do: The spell: Does not erase your memory. Does not turn your brain off. Does not eliminate your ability to reason. Does make the caster your friend. Okay so there is obviously something wrong here. I spent the past several hours (or days) in this dungeon, dealing with lethal traps and denizens, all with the goal of defeating the evil overlord. And now after he obviously cast a spell...he's my friend? Or even if he casted the spell from secret. I've heard about charm spells, I know what they do. But that doesn't matter...uh...because he's my friend. Maybe you cast this spell on merchants to get a better deal. Well even if they don't realize they are under the spell...'Yes, either I never met you or I have met you and you aren't my friend. But now suddenly you are.' I don't get it. And of course later on when it wears off...and you cast it again. I'd think my memory of what was happening would certainly make me suspicious. So anyway...I was wondering who uses this spell and how? Cheers.
CryoSilver 08-03-06, 09:01 PM	Charm is good as a substitute for Suggestion, more than as a substitute for Dominate. Like, trying to get into areas you shouldn't be in. Guard: "Hey, you're not allowed in here!" charms guard Wizard: "Hey, I know, but consider it a favor, huh? You know I'd cover you, right? Right?"
Rerednaw 08-06-06, 01:20 AM	Charm is good as a substitute for Suggestion, more than as a substitute for Dominate. Like, trying to get into areas you shouldn't be in. Guard: "Hey, you're not allowed in here!" charms guard Wizard: "Hey, I know, but consider it a favor, huh? You know I'd cover you, right? Right?" Um..."You know I'm asking you to risk your job (or perhaps your life depending who your work for) but since you are a good friend, you'd let me pass right?" Would you do this for a 'good friend?' I think if it wasn't a risky proposition... Otherwise at best this guard wouldn't report you, but he still would not let you pass. And then later when the spell wore off...he'd report you. I think I'd have better success putting a guard to sleep from 110 or more feet away. What guard is inclined to tell his boss that he fell asleep on duty? Tough adjucating this spell.
Magicianguy131 08-06-06, 01:29 AM	Charming makes them your friend. The whole guard thing is pretty much what it is. I was walking in the streets of Sharn (a large city in Ebberon) in the form of a pretty girl (Channgling!) and I came across this store that had a lovely little magical item (of which I cant remember) then a little shop caught my eye. I wanted to buy a lovely little wand of some sort but alas I didnt have enough money (grrr....500g to short!) so I charmed him (thank you silent and stilled metamagic!). He gave it to me 60% off! Thank you Charm Person and thank you expert class! I could have dominated him but there were other people in the shop and people might have noticed a dwarf with a "dominate face" and it was funnier!
SageBahamut 08-06-06, 03:04 AM	Yeah Charm can be a real headache. I would almost go so far as to say that it's like Jump or Glibness or those "+X to your next check" spells, in this case Diplomacy. Considering 50+ Diplomacy can turn someone from Hostile to Helpful, it seems like about the right level of kick.
OneWinged4ngel 08-06-06, 03:29 AM	Ugh... Glibness... hurts... so... much... The bard faces the big damn BBEG: Bard: casts glibness, has +50 or whatever Bluff now "THE SKY IS FALLING!" BBEG: "OH ****!!!"
Thiez 08-06-06, 07:57 AM	Glibness rocks, yes. You can take that -20 penalty for totally unbelievable stuff and still get a bonus +10 from the spell.
CaoSlayer 08-06-06, 08:09 AM	Considering that a mundane thing like acohol can erase your memory, turn your brain off, eliminate your ability to reason and "make friends" then it is safe to say that a spell like charm person should be more powerful.
Rerednaw 08-07-06, 08:55 AM	Considering that a mundane thing like acohol can erase your memory, turn your brain off, eliminate your ability to reason and "make friends" then it is safe to say that a spell like charm person should be more powerful. Okay. This kind of 'alcohol' does NOT Affect your ability to think or rationalize. Does not affect your memory. So it is like having the 'hey he's my drinking buddy' and being 100% sober at the same time. I do like your analysis. If the Charm Person spell were changed to 'drunk friend spell' where their ability to think was compromised then the uses that everyone tries to put it to would work. Cheers.