Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aramek 02-11-04, 02:21 PM	My campaign is finally reaching a turning point in which my players are graduating from the training academy and setting out on the real world. My graduation gift from the Headmaster is going to be a Headband or some 1st level spell made constant/at will. I know this sets off many red flags about cheatery, but I would like some more options. A headband of True Strike at will - Dangerous. A headband of Magic Missile at will - Neutral. Any advice on one of these things? Plus they are cheap and easy to craft. ^_^
Heron_Marked_Blade 02-11-04, 02:33 PM	Originally posted by Aramek A headband of True Strike at will - Dangerous. A headband of Magic Missile at will - Neutral. Any advice on one of these things? Plus they are cheap and easy to craft. ^_^ A headband of magic missile at will? Not in my campaign. I don't allow offensive spells to be made into "at will" items, not even ray of frost. Something more useful might be a cloak of resistance (boring? not when you need to make that save), or boots of spider climb, or a brooch that summons a Mount 1/day. Be careful about setting precedents for making items of useable at will. What will your reason for disallowing an necklace of [i]scorching ray at will be?
Darklion 02-11-04, 02:57 PM	I don't allow offensive spells to be made into "at will" items, not even ray of frostRay of frost is only dangerous because of the semi-ridiculous "you can sneak attack with a ray" rule. Invent a frostbolt spell and suddenly the unlimited ability to waste a standard action in order to fire a blast of ice that does 1d3 damage doesn't seem so unbalancing.
Hustler One 02-11-04, 03:03 PM	Blessed Headband +1 to attack, +1 to save against fear (Seems to fit the whole student gift thing. Dont want your students getting scared XD ) Headband of Divine Favor, +1 attack +1 damage (constant and it could go up with the characters level as per the level)
Darklion 02-11-04, 03:03 PM	Any advice on one of these things?Offensive spells should not generally be made into unlimited use items. True strike is particularly ugly and is possibly the most unbalanced spell to make continuous/unlimited use; comparing all other spells to true strike simply means the other spells are less ugly, not that the other spells are balanced. So scratch out magic missile as well -- it's still unbalanced. Frankly, if I could cherry-pick a spell that I had a permanent magic item of, it would probably be either comprehend languages or disguise self. The latter is obviously useful, and the former allows me to read the kobold graffitti that says, "Warning: spike trap ahead!"
tarkin 02-11-04, 03:04 PM	Those spells are not as cheap as you think they are and do not do what you think they do. At will means as a standard action - anything else increases the cost for example. The spell level x caster level x 2000 is the LAST resort for pricing objects, not the first one, and is supposed to be over-ridden by the DM when you are forced to use it and it does stupid things. Here are a list of things and their prices: True Strike as a Standard Action, unlimited times per day costs bonus /2 * 2000. = +20/2*2000 = 20,000 gp. Magic Missile is actually fairly priced at 2,000 gp for an item that makes a single 1d4+1 missile as a standard Action, unlimited times per day. Mage Armor on owner only costs the same as Bracers of Armor +4, 16,000 gp. Ring of unlimited used Cure Light wounds costs over 90,000gp (the price of a ring of regeneration). Charm Person at will should be 2,000gp .... if using the item on a 2nd person automatically breaks the spell on the first. Shield spell always on costs MORE than 16,000 gp, as it also protects against Magic Missile. Try 18,000 gp. You CAN do attack spells at will, as long as you do them reasonably and keep to the actual rules instead of making up stupid House Rules that are clearly munchin.
Luminous Crayon 02-11-04, 03:29 PM	A few good spells to be made into useful, yet (probably? hopefully?) not unbalancing at will or continuous items: Endure Elements - A few weeks back, I posted a cloak that made its wearer continuously under the effects of this spell. A great item for travelers, it keeps you warm in the winter, cool in the summer, and it keeps the rain off and the wind out. May seem rather useless, but if you ever have to venture into a desert or arctic environment, it may save your life (and it'll keep a spellbook undamaged in a monsoon.) Disguise Self - Nice for rogues (or anybody, really.) One of my favorite spells to use as a DM. Beware the BBEG with access to Disguise Self. Mount - It's always nice to have a horse. At lower caster levels, it may be inconvenient to have to continually recast this spell during long distance trips, whenever the duration expires and your trusty steed blinks out of existance. Comprehend Languages - A great gift for wizardly or bardly scholars of ancient civilizations, foreign cultures, or other subjects where the ability to study manuscripts in other languages is important. A super-useful spell in many situations, especially in a campaign world like Kingdoms of Kalamar, where Common has been broken up into several regional languages, and it's more difficult to find someone you can converse with. Alarm - Keep your stuff secure, and relax while on watch at night. Feather Fall - You never know when you ma need it, but it could easily save your life. Especially with the HP of low-level characters. (Can you tell my 1st level wizard nearly died in a spelunking accident in a game on Monday? Had Feather Fall in his spellbook, but hadn't prepared it that day. Grr...) I've been naming first-level arcane spells so far, but divine spells and cantrips should not be ignored. I can imagine endless usefulness in a dagger that glows with a Light spell at will, spectacles that allow the wearer to Detect Magic or Read Magic, a canteen that Creates Water as a 1st level cleric, and so on.
Lord Psynister 02-11-04, 04:09 PM	sorry. DP
Lord Psynister 02-11-04, 04:11 PM	Spell ideas Lvs. 0-1: (trying not to repeat any) Detect Magic Know Direction Light Mage Hand Message Prestidigitation Read Magic Resistance Summon Instrument Animate Rope Detect Secret Doors Unseen Servant Ventriloquism Detect Poison Guidance Purify Food and Drink Comprehend Languages Deathwatch Endure Elements Detect Animals or Plants Detect Snares and Pits Longstrider Pass without Trace Speak with Animals Ghost Sound Arcane Mark Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law Mount Detect Undead Floating Disk Disguise Self Silent Image Enlarge Person Erase Expeditious Retreat Feather Fall Reduce Person Those are the ones that just stuck out to me as I looked them over. Granted, some of them are probably going to end up being too powerful for what you're looking for, because I wasn't considering how they could be manipulated, just whether or not they would be cool to have in an unlimited use item that wasn't blatently overpowered.
Tehril 02-11-04, 09:22 PM	What level are your characters? What class? A wonderful gift for a wizard or a fighter than wields no shield are Bracers of the Master, a pair of magical bracers that cast Shield 3/day for a duration of 1 minute each time. Perfect for small skirmishes... I believe that the market cost is 1080gp. For a command word activated item, this is quite nice. Or, you could provide a cloak of Protection From Evil... again, command word activated... 3/day for 1 minute... or 1/day for 3 minutes... etc... 1080gp market price. Note, permanent versions of these items would be very expensive... 16000gp for the bracers and about 20,000 for the cloak... (4K for the AC bonus, another 4K for the save bonus... the rest is very difficult to price... find a higher level spell that prevents creatures from coming within a certain distance... equivalent price... drop by 30% or 50% for the limited target... etc... 20K easy)
Aramek 02-11-04, 10:06 PM	All will be level 5 for graduation. Dwarven Barb Elven Melee Cleric of Sif Drow Rogue Human Monk Elven Starstepper Kitty Blue Mage
anglar 02-11-04, 10:19 PM	Originally posted by tarkin You CAN do attack spells at will, as long as you do them reasonably and keep to the actual rules instead of making up stupid House Rules that are clearly munchin. Spoken like ignorant Oompa Loompa. The OP even stated the True Strike would be a bad idea. This is twice in as many days that you have used the words "stupid" and "munchkin" to describe a proposed house rule. Since I blew apart your first use (See TWF and STR to off-hand), I thought I'd come in and do it here as well. What's SOOOOOOOOOOOO dangerous about an item that alllows for True Strike to be used an unlimited number of times a day? As you pointed out, it takes a standard action to activate which means the PC only has a MEA left that round. In the next round the spell only counts for the first attack, which gives the spell only two real uses, 1) the monster with an incredible AC, or 2) the monster with a lot of HP that'll be Power Attacked. In either case the PC can only attack effectively once every other round. The most outlandish use I can think of right now is a high level rogue with a Ring of Invisibility, this headband, and the Power Attack feat who CDGs a dragon or something with a longsword wielded in two hands. Since you don't really know what a munchkin is (someone who is only interested in his PC being the star, the rest of the players be damned), do the rest of us a favor and dismount from that horse you're on to this pedistal and then get down from there too.
Aramek 02-11-04, 10:29 PM	And I am wondering where all of you keep getting your cost numbers! True strike, while techinally an "Instantanious Duration", since it doesnt last past one round, we can say that it is measured in rounds. 1(Spell level) x 1(Caster Level) x 2000 = 2000gp market price. x4 for being measured in rounds = 8000 market price. --------------------------------------------------------- There are two formulas for items. One is "Command Word" anmd the other "Cont. or Use-activated" Command word is the standard action (CLxSpLvx1800) Use-Activated is the "At will" or a free action. (CLxSpLvx2000)
Tehril 02-11-04, 11:00 PM	For item creation, you must take the most expensive method possible. If it provides a combat bonus, you must look to existing items for pricing guidlines. True Strike provides a +20 insight bonus on your next attack. A permanent +20 true strike would cost 20^2x2000/2= 400,000gp For an item that casts the spell as per the description... ie, 1 round to activate, attack on the next round... I'd suggest you look at the Bow of True Striking from either MOTW or Sword & Fist (can't remember which one...) I believe the placed the bow at either 4K or 4.5K... considering it was a +1 bow, that would put the enchantment around 2K. BUT... that was just for the bow. So, something that could be used with any weapon would be considerably more expensive.
PhaedrusXY 02-12-04, 12:36 AM	As stated, an at will True Strike item only allows you to make a single attack every other round with a +20 bonus. It would basically function as a Wand of True Strike with unlimited charges. And Wands with 0 and 1st level spells are cheap anyway, so really items with True Strike and Ray of Frost At Will would hardly be game breaking. They are basically like Wands with unlimited charges. What I'd be very wary of would be things that give you multiple bonuses and benefits, like permanent Protection from Evil. That would be almost as good as having a +2 Ring of Protection, a +2 Cloak of Resistance, and partial Mind Blank all the time.
Thelon Fairblade 02-12-04, 08:45 AM	It is very easy to avoid the "continuous at will = broken!" argument. For the same price, make it a 5/day item. "always on" Shield spell might cost 16000 or more (+4 AC), but "5/day" Shield spell costs only 2000. "per day" means standard action to activate, short term use, no effect on those nasty surprise and flat-footed rounds, etc. Plus it only lasts 1 minute. Magic Missile, 5/day, at caster level 1 (1d4+1) = 2000 gp. True Strike, 5/day = 2000 gp. Mage Armor, 5/day, as caster level 1 = 2000 gp. Etc.
danferry 02-12-04, 03:08 PM	You don't want to give somethng too powerful. How about headbands/helms of Darksight, or True sight, stuff like that. I have an elven wizard, that as soon as he can afford it (or do it himself) is going to have pernament Darksight cast upon him.
Heron_Marked_Blade 02-12-04, 07:58 PM	Helm of True Sight? That's a very powerful spell; it makes the entire Illusion spell school useless. No more invisible foes, false images, or displaced enemies. :D
Edymnion 02-12-04, 08:10 PM	Give them my signature item, a Choker/Necklace/Broach/Whatever Misc Item Slot You Want of Prestidigitation. 900gp worth, and you've got an always on Prestidigitation. Very useful for flavor, some minor combat abilities if you're creative, and all around fun to have.
El_Machinae 02-12-04, 11:58 PM	A headband of continual unseen servant. After awhile, depending on how they treat it, it could develop a personality
Lord Psynister 02-13-04, 02:51 AM	Originally posted by Edymnion Give them my signature item, a Choker/Necklace/Broach/Whatever Misc Item Slot You Want of Prestidigitation. 900gp worth, and you've got an always on Prestidigitation. Very useful for flavor, some minor combat abilities if you're creative, and all around fun to have. Minor combat abilities? Hmm....I haven't looked into the spell quite that much yet. Care to give an example or two? (or however many you have) I do agree though that having a unlimited Prestidigitation would be one of, if not the, funnest items to have.
Shoes 02-13-04, 03:36 AM	Originally posted by Aramek All will be level 5 for graduation. Dwarven Barb Elven Melee Cleric of Sif Drow Rogue Human Monk Elven Starstepper Kitty Blue Mage Blue mage!? I assuming thats a homebrew class from either yourself or from here at the boards.
Kerrexl 02-13-04, 08:20 AM	Originally posted by Heron_Marked_Blade Helm of True Sight? That's a very powerful spell; it makes the entire Illusion spell school useless. No more invisible foes, false images, or displaced enemies. :D - That is a reslottet default DMG 3.0 item... Does "Gem of Seeing" remind you of anything.. :)
Pathanus 02-13-04, 05:19 PM	If the characters are just starting out, you should avoid continuous/at-will items. I would assume that players would rely on these items alot at low levels and not use thier class abilities and skills and lack alot of creativity so the rp aspect would lack as well. I would give each PC something they could use, but is under 5k or so. Ideas: Spellcasters: Pearl of Power 1st lvl, Headband of Spellcasting ability score +1 Rogues: Hat of Disguise, Gloves of Dex +1, Cloak of Res +1 Melee Guys: MW Silver/Cold Iron Weapon, Weapon +1, Armor +1, Cure Potions GL with your decision. Path
meabolex 02-13-04, 05:36 PM	removed
Aramek 02-13-04, 07:05 PM	Hey shoes. Blue mage!? I assuming thats a homebrew class from either yourself or from here at the boards. Check my sig. :angel:
Tehril 02-13-04, 08:36 PM	Give them a minor (under 2.5Kgp) magical item (correctly calculated for price, mind you!) that enhances a class ability. Giving characters items that grant bonuses to skills is a great way to go. If you want to keep it uniform, craft an item that grants a flat +1 enhancement bonus to their primary ability. This would cost 1000gp and could be enhanced later if they wish. ie, Minor Gauntlets of Ogre Strength... provides a +1 enhancement bonus to the wearers strength score. Minor Headband of Intellect, provides a +1 enhancement bonus to wearers intelligence score. Minor gloves of dex, minor cloak of charisma, minor periapt of wisdom... Of course, it would be best to come up with a nicer name and a bit of a story to go along with the items...rather than calling them a "X" of "XXX" +1... if you've ever played the Baldurs gate computer game series or the Never Winter Nights computer game series... you know the kind of item write ups that I am talking about. You can also do some minor slot swapping... which can make for an interesting item. If this doesn't appeal to you, then handing out skill enhancing items might be a good alternative. Perhaps a set of enhanced lock picks? 2.5Kgp for a +5 to your lock picking skill? Or to Move Silently...etc... Beware, these suggestions will make up a good portion of the 9000gp suggested character wealth limit for a 5th level character...
Edymnion 02-13-04, 10:12 PM	Originally posted by Lord Psynister Minor combat abilities? Hmm....I haven't looked into the spell quite that much yet. Care to give an example or two? (or however many you have) Well, you have to use your imagination. The limits are that they cannot do even 1hp of damage, and they can't force a Concentration check for casters. Anything else within the general feel of Prest is good to go. And don't forget, it has no saving throw (its listed as having one, says see text, but the text never says anything about it) and no spell resistance. Next time you're up against the BBEG, soil his hair, wet his pants, change his armor to bright neon pink, and heat/cool his codpiece, and make his upper lip smell like the south end of a north bound horse. Do these have any mechanical effects on him? Nope. Are they within Prest's abilities? Yup. Is it going to affect his effectiveness in an encounter? If your DM is playing him realistically it will. It can also turn the tide by providing circumstance bonuses to pivotal checks. A good intimidate check can be the diferance between a long fight and an easy win. Help up that Intimidate roll by making your eyes glow, your hair stand on end, crackles of electricity running up and down your body, whip up some faint evil chanting, and add an echo to your voice, and I think that would warrent the standard +2 circumstance bonus to said roll. When you have an always on Prestidigitation, your only limit is your own imagination! :D
BlaineTog 02-14-04, 01:35 AM	I like Prestidigitation. :D Actually, all of these guys could make great use of of a couple Travel Cloaks (from Magic of Faerun). Essentially, they have continuous Endure elements (cold), keeps you dry, provides enough trail rations per day to feed you, dispenses either pure water or hot tea (your choice when you go to pick up the canteen in the cloak), and 1/day the claok can become a one-man tent. All for the low, low price of 1,200 gp. I'll cut this up and see what stuff I think thye might get enjoy. Dwarven Barb: Hmm... a mug that fills will ale on command might work for this guy (if (s)he's playing a steryotype). He also might get a kick out of a few Elixirs of fire breath. Elven Melee Cleric of Sif: a Phylactery of faithfulness might come in handy for this guy. A bunch of potions might come in handy, as would a more practical Full mithral plate armor. Drow Rogue: a Hat of Disguise (if drow are hat-ed and dispised IYC. Sorry, bad pun.) could be invaluable to this fella. The Hand of the mage could also help him if he likes stealin' stuff from afar. Human Monk: Tough call. This is technically illegal, but you could always give him a pair of Ki Focus monk weapons (no +1, no enhancement bonus, just the Ki Focus). IF the celing is 5k, then this would fit perfectly. Elven Starstepper Kitty Blue Mage: :D Well, obviously a full scroll case could help this BM out a lot. If it's graduating from an academy with mages in it, you could just give the BM a spell known (like, the resident archmage hits the BM with a spell, but does it in such a way that (s)he isn't hurt by it).
meabolex 02-14-04, 01:38 AM	Quickened prestidigitation. THAT'S what I want. Is it possible to put a quickened prestidigitation effect on an item that can be activated as a free action? Use-activated perhaps? The Eyebrows of the Edymnion When you put these fake, silvery eyebrows over normal eyebrows (or where eyebrows would normally be on your face), you may make simple magic effects almost instantly. You may pull your eyebrows up and down (a free action) to activate minor magical effects for one hour in line with the prestidigitation spell. 1000 gp?
da chicken 02-14-04, 02:40 AM	Originally posted by Luminous Crayon A few good spells to be made into useful, yet (probably? hopefully?) not unbalancing at will or continuous items: Er, many of these already are items. In the DMG, no less. Endure Elements Boots of the Winterlands Disguise Self Hat of Disguise Mount Figurine of Wonderous Power: Obsidian Steed. Stone Horse. Comprehend Languages Helm of Comprehending Languages and Reading Magic. Also permanency. Alarm Rod of Alertness. Feather Fall Ring of Feather Falling I've been naming first-level arcane spells so far, but divine spells and cantrips should not be ignored. I can imagine endless usefulness in a dagger that glows with a Light spell at will, spectacles that allow the wearer to Detect Magic or Read Magic, a canteen that Creates Water as a 1st level cleric, and so on. I agree. The majority of the spells you mention work just fine with the spell lvl x caster lvl x 2,000 gp approach.
BlaineTog 02-14-04, 02:46 AM	Originally posted by meabolex The Eyebrows of the Edymnion When you put these fake, silvery eyebrows over normal eyebrows (or where eyebrows would normally be on your face), you may make simple magic effects almost instantly. You may pull your eyebrows up and down (a free action) to activate minor magical effects for one hour in line with the prestidigitation spell. 1000 gp? Well, if you want to get technical, the price formula would be: Caster Level * Spell Level * Base * Modifers. CL=7 (quicikened raises SL and therefore CL) * SL=4 (quickened is +4) *1.5 (if it uses the Goggles slot. 1.5 'cuz itz an innapropriate slot) = Technically 75,600gp. Now this is obviously bonkers, so I'd just price it as 1,800gp and be done with it.
Loren Pechtel 02-14-04, 12:43 PM	Originally posted by meabolex Quickened prestidigitation. THAT'S what I want. Is it possible to put a quickened prestidigitation effect on an item that can be activated as a free action? Use-activated perhaps? The Eyebrows of the Edymnion When you put these fake, silvery eyebrows over normal eyebrows (or where eyebrows would normally be on your face), you may make simple magic effects almost instantly. You may pull your eyebrows up and down (a free action) to activate minor magical effects for one hour in line with the prestidigitation spell. 1000 gp? Quickened is going to cost a lot more. 1000gp is fine for them as a standard action.
Loren Pechtel 02-14-04, 12:45 PM	Originally posted by BlaineTog Well, if you want to get technical, the price formula would be: Caster Level * Spell Level * Base * Modifers. CL=7 (quicikened raises SL and therefore CL) * SL=4 (quickened is +4) *1.5 (if it uses the Goggles slot. 1.5 'cuz itz an innapropriate slot) = Technically 75,600gp. Now this is obviously bonkers, so I'd just price it as 1,800gp and be done with it. Inappropriate slot? I Dream of Jeanie comes to mind. Seems appropriate to me.
meabolex 02-14-04, 12:58 PM	I can just see the PCs. DM: You have just vanquished the tarrasque. And in the mighty tarrasque's lair you find, a pair of fake eyebrows. PCs: *JAWS DROP* I think quickened 0th level spells are not EDIT: 4rd level spells. What a silly idea! A edit: maximized magic missile, versus quickened prestidigitation? Please people. . . common sense. 1000 gp is the most I'd ever pay for it.
PhaedrusXY 02-14-04, 01:13 PM	In one game I play in, we found (no kidding)... the mustache of Vecna. I can't remember exactly what it did. I think it might have increased your arcane caster level by +1 or more. Our DM is insane, heh.
meabolex 02-14-04, 01:21 PM	But 75.600gp is almost an average yield for a CR 20 treasure. For quickened prestidigitation. That lasts for an hour. The most times you'll need it per day is 24 times. Ever. 8 if you count 8 hour days as the time you spend moving. :confused: Vecna has a mustache?
Edymnion 02-14-04, 02:56 PM	You don't need Quicken Prestidigitation. Prest has a duration of 1 hour, and you can do any of it's effects within that hour. As an always on item, you are constantly under its effects, so you can use any of them whenever you want. You're still under the limits of things like how much volume you can affect per round, and things like that, but otherwise, you're good to go. I currently have one as a choker (a tight fitting band around the neck, like a necklace, for those that don't know what a choker is) on my sorceress, and she's having a ball with it. Also had a Rogue with a Broach of Prestidigitation as a Command Word Activation (tapping the broach) that he used for lightning campfires and flavoring his trail rations. They're WONDERFUL little items. My characters always aim for three magic items at the start these days. A Haversack, a Cloak of the Traveller, and a Whatever of Prestidigitation. 900 gp for a slotted item, 1800 as an unslotted. Typically, there aren't a lot of necklaces worth using all the time, so thats a great place to stick the thing. Just ignore the silly "Innappropriate Slot" nonsense for this though. Other than the cloak's "Misc Effects", there IS no correct slot for this. But really, any sort of jewelry slot sounds appropriate to me.
BlaineTog 02-14-04, 05:02 PM	Originally posted by meabolex I can just see the PCs. DM: You have just vanquished the tarrasque. And in the mighty tarrasque's lair you find, a pair of fake eyebrows. PCs: *JAWS DROP*:rofl: I think quickened 0th level spells are not EDIT: 4rd level spells. What a silly idea! A edit: maximized magic missile, versus quickened prestidigitation? Please people. . . common sense.A) A quickened prestidigitation would require the expenditure of a 4th level slot. Argue with all you like, but that is a fact. And if a 4th level slot is required, then you have to be able to cast 4th level spells. Eirgo (sp?), the price goes up. B) Nonono, 75,600 gp is ludicruous for what it does. 900 gp or a necklace of Prest is a perfectly reasonable price, expecially since there is really no reason to have it quickened. I'm just say that by the item creation guidlines it would be insanely expensive. Which is why theur are simpley guidlines. 1000 gp is the most I'd ever pay for it. 900 slotted, 1,800 unslotted. Inappropriate slot? I Dream of Jeanie comes to mind. Seems appropriate to me.Yes, it is innapropriate, according to the guidlines which don't always work. Gogles (according to the guidlines) are supposed to affect your vision. These things would only do that in a roundabout sort of way, which is still an innapropriate slot. In any case, it's about 50,000gp even if it was in an appropriate slot, so no realy change.