Chill Touch & Spectral Hand [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chill Touch & Spectral Hand [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BeauJest
07-27-07, 02:31 PM Ok, so I never understood why melee touch attacks use Strength vs. Dexterity. But in the case of using Spectral Hand, it really confounds me. My wizard is especially weak (gnome w/ strength 5), so the -3 really stings for touch spells.

If anything, you'd think spectral hand would use your Int modifier, something akin to Wis w/ spiritual weapon. Perhaps the +2 atk tries to make up for it, but I still find it strange Str is involved when you are nowhere close to your enemy. Maybe no Str modifier at all? That is still better than -3 for my weak wiz.

Thoughts?
Kouk
07-27-07, 03:03 PM Ok, so I never understood why melee touch attacks use Strength vs. Dexterity. But in the case of using Spectral Hand, it really confounds me. My wizard is especially weak (gnome w/ strength 5), so the -3 really stings for touch spells.

If anything, you'd think spectral hand would use your Int modifier, something akin to Wis w/ spiritual weapon. Perhaps the +2 atk tries to make up for it, but I still find it strange Str is involved when you are nowhere close to your enemy. Maybe no Str modifier at all? That is still better than -3 for my weak wiz.

Thoughts?

Well, if you take Weapon Finesse, your own melee Touch attacks can use your Dexterity to hit.

I don't know if that would carry over to the Spectral Hand, but the main benefit is that you can make melee Touch attacks at range with it.

Maybe you can develop a similar spell one or two levels higher that uses your relevant spellcasting ability modifier, or just allows it to use your STR or DEX, whichever is better.
Puca
07-27-07, 03:14 PM A vast majority of spell casters with Spectral Hand are going to have a better Dex than Str. All will have a better primary casting stat than Str.

Yeah, I think it seems more like a ranged-touch attack, but letting you use Dex means it is going to hit more often, making it a better spell. Letting you use Int makes it a much better spell.

It doesnt need to be any better. I think the spell is good enough as written.

Weapon Finesse would work with Spectral Hand IMO. It applies to a normal touch attack, and thats what this is. Mostly.
BeauJest
07-27-07, 03:35 PM I found this very interesting, related to the incorporeal subtype:

An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn’t wish to be. It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to both its melee attacks and its ranged attacks.

It specifically states the hand is incorporeal in the spell description. Who thinks you should use Dexterity now?
Puca
07-27-07, 03:52 PM I still dont.

The hand doesnt make the attack. You make the attack with the hand, so, even if it were a creature with the incorporeal subtype, which it isnt, youd still not be able to get around the spell description.

The spell description is going to take precedence over the description of incorporeal creatures. And the spell description says "touch attack."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BeauJest 07-27-07, 02:31 PM	Ok, so I never understood why melee touch attacks use Strength vs. Dexterity. But in the case of using Spectral Hand, it really confounds me. My wizard is especially weak (gnome w/ strength 5), so the -3 really stings for touch spells. If anything, you'd think spectral hand would use your Int modifier, something akin to Wis w/ spiritual weapon. Perhaps the +2 atk tries to make up for it, but I still find it strange Str is involved when you are nowhere close to your enemy. Maybe no Str modifier at all? That is still better than -3 for my weak wiz. Thoughts?
Kouk 07-27-07, 03:03 PM	Ok, so I never understood why melee touch attacks use Strength vs. Dexterity. But in the case of using Spectral Hand, it really confounds me. My wizard is especially weak (gnome w/ strength 5), so the -3 really stings for touch spells. If anything, you'd think spectral hand would use your Int modifier, something akin to Wis w/ spiritual weapon. Perhaps the +2 atk tries to make up for it, but I still find it strange Str is involved when you are nowhere close to your enemy. Maybe no Str modifier at all? That is still better than -3 for my weak wiz. Thoughts? Well, if you take Weapon Finesse, your own melee Touch attacks can use your Dexterity to hit. I don't know if that would carry over to the Spectral Hand, but the main benefit is that you can make melee Touch attacks at range with it. Maybe you can develop a similar spell one or two levels higher that uses your relevant spellcasting ability modifier, or just allows it to use your STR or DEX, whichever is better.
Puca 07-27-07, 03:14 PM	A vast majority of spell casters with Spectral Hand are going to have a better Dex than Str. All will have a better primary casting stat than Str. Yeah, I think it seems more like a ranged-touch attack, but letting you use Dex means it is going to hit more often, making it a better spell. Letting you use Int makes it a much better spell. It doesnt need to be any better. I think the spell is good enough as written. Weapon Finesse would work with Spectral Hand IMO. It applies to a normal touch attack, and thats what this is. Mostly.
BeauJest 07-27-07, 03:35 PM	I found this very interesting, related to the incorporeal subtype: An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn’t wish to be. It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to both its melee attacks and its ranged attacks. It specifically states the hand is incorporeal in the spell description. Who thinks you should use Dexterity now?
Puca 07-27-07, 03:52 PM	I still dont. The hand doesnt make the attack. You make the attack with the hand, so, even if it were a creature with the incorporeal subtype, which it isnt, youd still not be able to get around the spell description. The spell description is going to take precedence over the description of incorporeal creatures. And the spell description says "touch attack."