Chill Touch & the duskblade [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chill Touch & the duskblade [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sphyre
06-16-06, 07:35 AM I'm looking for interpretations and different opinions on the Duskblade's Arcane Channeling, Chill Touch, and how they stack. So people don't get into fightining into this thread, keep in mind that many people know how to be explicit in analyzing rules word for word, and there in lies the problem. The text available doesn't explain explicitly how many of these actions work, and because of that we have varied opinions on what the rules say.

As such, I'm asking for two or three things.
1) How do you interpret the rules on the given situations
2) Why you think it works that way
3) If how you interpret it varies from how you think it should work: What you think it should do if you designed it, or how you've houseruled it for your game.

This thread deals with rules that are NOT defined in legal language, thus interpretations will vary. So I ask that you keep it polite and at least in this thread, pretend that you can accept that others can have other valid opinions, if necessary.

Chill Touch
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Targets: Creature or creatures touched (up to one/level)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial or Will negates; see text Spell Resistance: Yes A touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, disrupts the life force of living creatures. Each touch channels negative energy that deals 1d6 points of damage. The touched creature also takes 1 point of Strength damage unless it makes a successful Fortitude saving throw. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.
An undead creature you touch takes no damage of either sort, but it must make a successful Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1d4 rounds +1 round per caster level.

Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

Arcane Channeling[Paraphrased]: A duskblade can, as a standard action, cast a touch spell he knows (without provoking an AoO, and a casting time of 1 std action or less) and deliver it through your weapon with a melee attack. If the attack hits, it deals damage and then applies the spell.

Fullround version[Paraphrased]: A duskblade can, as a fullround action, cast a touch spell he knows (without provoking an AoO, and casting time of 1 std action or less) and deliver it through your weapon against each target you strike with a melee attack this round. At the end of the round, the spell discharges.

Please refer to PHBII for exact wording for these abilities

Question 1: How does Chill Touch's multiple touchs, work?

We know that when you cast a touch spell, you can take a free touch attack to deliver that spell as part of casting the spell. If you miss, or choose not to attack, you hold the charge indefinately until you cast another spell. We also know that if you touch anything that the spell can discharge on, it will discharge whether you want it to or not. Please refer to the green portion if you don't know mechanics of holding a charge.

Please refer to the part of the spell portion in my sblock that I've highlighted teal. What do you think this means? Do you think it:
Lets you have X melee touch attacks, in which you can distribute among any number of targets you want all at the time of casting and then discharges?
Lets you have upto X melee touch attacks, in which you do one against everything you choose to touch, and then it discharges?
Lets you have X melee touch attacks, in which you can use 1 when you cast it, and discharges when you expend all of them or when you cast a spell (this is the one I think it is most likely)
Your own interpretation?

Question 2: If you use the standard action version of Arcane channeling, and miss, what happens to the spell?
It discharges
You hold the charge, but cannot channel it through your weapon to discharge it, since it is no longer the "standard action" that you took to channel it. Also you could lose the charge by casting another spell, as normal.
You hold the charge, and can channel the charge through your next attack, but will lose it if you cast another spell as normal before discharging it.
Something else I haven't thought of?

Question 3: When using the standard action version of Arcane Channeling with Chill touch, what happens?
You deal 1d6 extra damage (+1 possible str damage) with each attack you make, upto your caster level, or until you cast another spell.
You deal 1d6 extra damage (+1 possible str damage) with your attack this round. It discharges
You deal 1d6 extra damage (+1 possible str damage) with your attack this round, and it doesn't discharge. To use any additional charges, you need to use melee touch attacks, or obviously if you cast another spell the charges are lost. (e.g. you can't "channel' additional charges you have through your weapon)
Something else I haven't thought of?

Question 4: When using the full round action version of Arcane Channeling with Chill touch, what happens?
You deal 1d6 damage (+1 possible str damage) to each target you attack, discharging at the end of the round as per the description.
You deal 1d6 damage (+1 possible str damage) on each hit, because you have multiple charges to discharge, and then discharging at the end of the round as per the description.
Something else?

I don't like that the writers weren't explicit on these points, and that's why I'd like as many different opinions and veiws of it before I decide on how I think they should be work.
Sphyre
06-17-06, 11:45 PM :bump:

Come on... no one?
Sphyre
06-18-06, 09:04 PM Ok this is my last attempt to get a response...

I've considering revising the duskblade's Arcane channeling to this:

Arcane Channeling(Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a duskblade can channel touch spells through a melee weapon. If a duskblade is holding a charge from a touch spell, if he hits anyone with a melee weapon the touch spell charge discharges through the weapon after it deals damage.
When using the Standard action to attack, a Duskblade can cast any touch spell he knows with a casting time of 1 standard action or less as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This does not count against the one quickened/swift action per round limit. If the duskblade misses, he holds the touch spell charge, until it discharges on a future attack, assuming he does not use or lose the charge through other means beforehand.
At 13th level, a duskblade learns to extend the charge so he can hit multiple opponents with it. When using a full round action to attack, a Duskblade can cast any touch spell he knows with a casting time of 1 standard action or less as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. When using this version of arcane channeling, the charge from the touch spell acts differently and does not discharge as normal after hitting. Every target hit by the duskblade this round, is subject to a touch spell charge without discharging it. Targets hit multiple times by the duskblade are not affected by multiple charges of the some touch spell, and only affected once. At the beginning of your next turn, the touch spell charge discharges harmlessly, regardless of whether it would normally.

This is my vision of what a the duskblade was intended to be, and should be, with exception to the fact that I'd allow the first version of arcane channeling to also be used on a full-round attack (Making it so if you miss with all of your attacks, you still hold the charge)
Chainsaw
06-19-06, 03:44 AM I think the intent of the Arcane Channelling ability is that the sword basically works as your hand to try to apply the spell. Thus you could hold the charge if you were unable to hit with the attack and try again next round. That said, the rules are kind of vague if that really is the case and I think there is an argument to be said for it just plain discharging if you miss anyways. As far as the additional touches, I actually never noticed it said that in the spell description. Now I have to figure this out :)
Sphyre
06-19-06, 06:04 AM thanks for the response. I think it should work as such too, but it doesn't cover it nor does it suggest anything other than that.

I'm thinking that if the intent of Arcane channeling is in that way, and the intent of Chill touch is to give multiple charges in which you can use additional touches in subsequent rounds (which is on par with the 1st level spell) It would, indeed give +1d6 Damage + 1 possible str damage per attack, upto the number of attacks, or until you cast another spell, discharging your spell.
WayneTheGame
06-19-06, 07:22 AM Not that it helps you at all, but my group has interpreted Arcane Channeling so that the spell discharges even if you miss; they said otherwise it makes the Duskblade too powerful (already think it is overpowered). Luckily I never tried this trick out with my Duskblade.. they wouldn't know how to interpret your question :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sphyre 06-16-06, 07:35 AM	I'm looking for interpretations and different opinions on the Duskblade's Arcane Channeling, Chill Touch, and how they stack. So people don't get into fightining into this thread, keep in mind that many people know how to be explicit in analyzing rules word for word, and there in lies the problem. The text available doesn't explain explicitly how many of these actions work, and because of that we have varied opinions on what the rules say. As such, I'm asking for two or three things. 1) How do you interpret the rules on the given situations 2) Why you think it works that way 3) If how you interpret it varies from how you think it should work: What you think it should do if you designed it, or how you've houseruled it for your game. This thread deals with rules that are NOT defined in legal language, thus interpretations will vary. So I ask that you keep it polite and at least in this thread, pretend that you can accept that others can have other valid opinions, if necessary. Chill Touch Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Targets: Creature or creatures touched (up to one/level) Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude partial or Will negates; see text Spell Resistance: Yes A touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, disrupts the life force of living creatures. Each touch channels negative energy that deals 1d6 points of damage. The touched creature also takes 1 point of Strength damage unless it makes a successful Fortitude saving throw. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level. An undead creature you touch takes no damage of either sort, but it must make a successful Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1d4 rounds +1 round per caster level. Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell. Arcane Channeling[Paraphrased]: A duskblade can, as a standard action, cast a touch spell he knows (without provoking an AoO, and a casting time of 1 std action or less) and deliver it through your weapon with a melee attack. If the attack hits, it deals damage and then applies the spell. Fullround version[Paraphrased]: A duskblade can, as a fullround action, cast a touch spell he knows (without provoking an AoO, and casting time of 1 std action or less) and deliver it through your weapon against each target you strike with a melee attack this round. At the end of the round, the spell discharges. Please refer to PHBII for exact wording for these abilities Question 1: How does Chill Touch's multiple touchs, work? We know that when you cast a touch spell, you can take a free touch attack to deliver that spell as part of casting the spell. If you miss, or choose not to attack, you hold the charge indefinately until you cast another spell. We also know that if you touch anything that the spell can discharge on, it will discharge whether you want it to or not. Please refer to the green portion if you don't know mechanics of holding a charge. Please refer to the part of the spell portion in my sblock that I've highlighted teal. What do you think this means? Do you think it: Lets you have X melee touch attacks, in which you can distribute among any number of targets you want all at the time of casting and then discharges? Lets you have upto X melee touch attacks, in which you do one against everything you choose to touch, and then it discharges? Lets you have X melee touch attacks, in which you can use 1 when you cast it, and discharges when you expend all of them or when you cast a spell (this is the one I think it is most likely) Your own interpretation? Question 2: If you use the standard action version of Arcane channeling, and miss, what happens to the spell? It discharges You hold the charge, but cannot channel it through your weapon to discharge it, since it is no longer the "standard action" that you took to channel it. Also you could lose the charge by casting another spell, as normal. You hold the charge, and can channel the charge through your next attack, but will lose it if you cast another spell as normal before discharging it. Something else I haven't thought of? Question 3: When using the standard action version of Arcane Channeling with Chill touch, what happens? You deal 1d6 extra damage (+1 possible str damage) with each attack you make, upto your caster level, or until you cast another spell. You deal 1d6 extra damage (+1 possible str damage) with your attack this round. It discharges You deal 1d6 extra damage (+1 possible str damage) with your attack this round, and it doesn't discharge. To use any additional charges, you need to use melee touch attacks, or obviously if you cast another spell the charges are lost. (e.g. you can't "channel' additional charges you have through your weapon) Something else I haven't thought of? Question 4: When using the full round action version of Arcane Channeling with Chill touch, what happens? You deal 1d6 damage (+1 possible str damage) to each target you attack, discharging at the end of the round as per the description. You deal 1d6 damage (+1 possible str damage) on each hit, because you have multiple charges to discharge, and then discharging at the end of the round as per the description. Something else? I don't like that the writers weren't explicit on these points, and that's why I'd like as many different opinions and veiws of it before I decide on how I think they should be work.
Sphyre 06-17-06, 11:45 PM	:bump: Come on... no one?
Sphyre 06-18-06, 09:04 PM	Ok this is my last attempt to get a response... I've considering revising the duskblade's Arcane channeling to this: Arcane Channeling(Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a duskblade can channel touch spells through a melee weapon. If a duskblade is holding a charge from a touch spell, if he hits anyone with a melee weapon the touch spell charge discharges through the weapon after it deals damage. When using the Standard action to attack, a Duskblade can cast any touch spell he knows with a casting time of 1 standard action or less as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This does not count against the one quickened/swift action per round limit. If the duskblade misses, he holds the touch spell charge, until it discharges on a future attack, assuming he does not use or lose the charge through other means beforehand. At 13th level, a duskblade learns to extend the charge so he can hit multiple opponents with it. When using a full round action to attack, a Duskblade can cast any touch spell he knows with a casting time of 1 standard action or less as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. When using this version of arcane channeling, the charge from the touch spell acts differently and does not discharge as normal after hitting. Every target hit by the duskblade this round, is subject to a touch spell charge without discharging it. Targets hit multiple times by the duskblade are not affected by multiple charges of the some touch spell, and only affected once. At the beginning of your next turn, the touch spell charge discharges harmlessly, regardless of whether it would normally. This is my vision of what a the duskblade was intended to be, and should be, with exception to the fact that I'd allow the first version of arcane channeling to also be used on a full-round attack (Making it so if you miss with all of your attacks, you still hold the charge)
Chainsaw 06-19-06, 03:44 AM	I think the intent of the Arcane Channelling ability is that the sword basically works as your hand to try to apply the spell. Thus you could hold the charge if you were unable to hit with the attack and try again next round. That said, the rules are kind of vague if that really is the case and I think there is an argument to be said for it just plain discharging if you miss anyways. As far as the additional touches, I actually never noticed it said that in the spell description. Now I have to figure this out :)
Sphyre 06-19-06, 06:04 AM	thanks for the response. I think it should work as such too, but it doesn't cover it nor does it suggest anything other than that. I'm thinking that if the intent of Arcane channeling is in that way, and the intent of Chill touch is to give multiple charges in which you can use additional touches in subsequent rounds (which is on par with the 1st level spell) It would, indeed give +1d6 Damage + 1 possible str damage per attack, upto the number of attacks, or until you cast another spell, discharging your spell.
WayneTheGame 06-19-06, 07:22 AM	Not that it helps you at all, but my group has interpreted Arcane Channeling so that the spell discharges even if you miss; they said otherwise it makes the Duskblade too powerful (already think it is overpowered). Luckily I never tried this trick out with my Duskblade.. they wouldn't know how to interpret your question :)