Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fanaval 11-13-06, 01:00 PM	Preface: i know that the power of a wizard is versatility in the selection of spells but... I was thinking: If i'm a wizard and i do not need to face a particular enemy or situation (where i can prepare properly my spells in advance), what everyday versatile and well balanced spells of 9th level should i prepare? Two versions: If i have three 9th slots i would choose.... If i have four 9th slots i would choose.... Make your choice. Thanks. :)
epifreak 11-13-06, 04:01 PM	Time Stop Wail of the Banshee Gate Shapechange If you go to 3, I'd say drop wail of the banshee
TheCobra 11-13-06, 04:02 PM	Shapechange is always a good choice.
Nezkrul 11-13-06, 06:30 PM	this choice completely depends on character, personallity, campaign, timeframe, etc... But shapechange is never not-useful.
Thomar_of_Uointer 11-13-06, 07:07 PM	Depends, really. Your lower-level spells are going to be what you fall back on when you run out, or if there's something your higher-levels didn't cover. There are also fun low-level buffs, like mage armor, that can affect how you do things. Prismatic sphere: A very good "get off my back" battlefield control spell. Combine with bigby's clenched fist (another good spell for keeping melee-types away) to use offensively. Summon monster IX: Worth it for the elementals, though a bit prone to dispelling. Also gives you access to multiple monsters from all the other lists. And it's always nice to drop 32 Hit Dice of poisonous vermin on someone. Due to its long casting time and easy dispel target, this would be the one to drop for 3 spells. Shades: Like wish, only 80% real and limited to Conjuration spells with no XP cost. Enervation: Instant debuff, no save.
Neutronium_Dragon 11-13-06, 07:11 PM	If it's a case of, "I'm in town, not doing anything special" then I'd suggest Shapechange, Summon Monster IX, and Time Stop. The first two offer a good deal of versatility (and access to unusual spells and/or abilities), while the third one is basically your "panic button" in case something happens. Foresight might make a good fourth addition, just in case you suspect that things are about to get interesting again.
runestar 11-14-06, 04:02 AM	I say aye to gate as well.:) Don't bother about wish, that's what the solar you will be gating in is for...:D
Manic Man 11-14-06, 11:01 AM	Shapechange - pretty much an incredible spell Timestop - as was described well, its the panic button Frostfell - Mass save or die MDJ - drop one for fun or you somehow get trapped
Craig C. 11-16-06, 01:57 PM	A number of people here think *combat-only spells* make good everyday selections. That's nuts. The majority of "living days" for a spellcaster capable of casting 9th level spells will not entail combat at all. Now ... some spells are so utilitarian that they have value in-&-out of combat. Like Shapechange (which was mentioned earlier). Even if you are going to include combat-only spells, you better be fully aware of your enemy demographic in your locale. Most CR 17 and higher encounters have a ton of immunities and resistances - relegating your effective choosing of kill spells to a very small niche of choices. Definitely note though, "living days" and "adventuring days" need some more delineation by the OP.
epifreak 11-16-06, 02:14 PM	I dunno, looking at the PH, there's not that many 9th level spells to begin with, and since most of those are either not utilitarian or have an XP cost, I wouldn't go about memorizing them. Take wish for instance. The character who uses wish often gimps himself pretty quickly. Besides, most of what I'm seeing is shapechange, time stop, and a sprinkling of gate. After that, having a combat spell prepared is not exactly excessive, just in case.
IceFractal 11-16-06, 04:11 PM	I think it's reasonable to spend the 9th level slots on combat spells, even on non-combat days, because if you aren't in combat, do you really need your highest level spells? And, you could always get ambushed. I'd say: Shapechange: Widely useful Gate: Likewise, and you can use it for escaping Shades: Almost as good as Wish, in many cases Time Stop: For emergencies
CryoSilver 11-16-06, 04:32 PM	Shapechange Gate Time Stop Gate (again)
Manic Man 11-16-06, 08:23 PM	And, you could always get ambushed Agreed. When you get to 3-4 9th level spells per day (even if part of it is from items and int/cha), you tend to make a lot of enemies. Enemies who are not shy in attempting to kill you and likely most of them aren't the honorable type.
Esponer 11-16-06, 09:02 PM	Time stop, to begin with. It has uses in all sorts of circumstances and can be used if you are ambushed (particularly if one of your lower level slots contains celerity — but see below). A high-level wizard would be plain foolish not to have one copy of time stop prepared, I'd go so far as to say. Powerful attacking spells in case you're ambushed are fine, but time stop has two advantages: you can use it to get yourself out of there (combine with a teleportation spell) so you can come back to fight another day; it can prove useful in many non-combat situations. Shades is a good utility spell and can easily play the part of a combat spell if it needs to. It's definitely a good one to have prepared. If you're really worried about ambushes, foresight is a must — otherwise you can't use an immediate action to cast celerity and use that action for time stop to get even more time to prepare (or use the action to teleport away). Prismatic sphere is remarkably handy. I think I'd be more likely to prepare teleportation circle, however, as I might very well to go travelling and bring the entire party along. There: for a wizard I was playing, time stop, teleportation circle, foresight, and shades. The one I'd drop would depend on the circumstances: teleportation circle would be dropped if I knew I wouldn't need it, foresight if deadly ambushes weren't too likely and shades otherwise. Time stop would always be there. (On a day likely to have lots of combat in my choices would be different and probably include shapechange or gate if I was going to be pragmatic. I don't like either spell though, so I guess I'd probably go with more interesting stuff like a copy of disjunction and some other 9th level spells in other books.)
Navigator 11-16-06, 09:34 PM	Why no love for dominate monster? :D
Whirlwind 11-16-06, 09:48 PM	Having played more with shapechange I think its an amazing spell. It has amazing utility: In between combats: shift into something with with high resists, dex and high Spell Resistance. Or maybe something with unusual senses such as a balor with its continuous true seeing. Once combat begins shift into a form that grants lots of defense against the type of incoming attacks that are coming your way or perhaps into a form that grants extra actions or allows you to cast extra spells (such as the Spellweaver). Need to escape? Shift into something that has unusual movement methods or high speed (flying dragon, spectre, xorn, etc.) Choose wisely though as in many forms some or all of your gear will fall on the ground when you shift. Other good choices for 9th level spells: Mordenkainen's Disjunction - great spell when your enemies are buffed up with tons of buffs. Huge area of effect and there's almost no way to defend against this spell. Effulgent Eppuration - Basically makes you immune to all non-deific targetted spells for the duration. Still vulnerable to area attacks or dispels like Mordenkainen's Disjunction though. Gate - summon in that Solar to help out. Frostfell - Good offensive spell. Huge area of effect composed of 20' cubes that you can aim hopefully without hitting allies. Its a mass save or die spell and even on a successful save targets still take 1d6 per level damage (up to 20d6). Much better than meteor swarm for heavy area damage since there's no save for half... and with the added benefit of having the potential to instantly kill. Sphere of Ultimate Destruction - pretty limited utility. Still its pretty much a fire and forget disintegrate that always hits. Good against undead. Energy drain - not that good especially when a twinned enervation does the same. Still, it allows some interesting combos (Use wizard epic slots or use metamagic specialist sorc variant from PHB2. Shapechange to Chronotyryn (gets 2 full round actions), then cast Energy Drain twice -- twinned both times. Target gains 4d4 negative levels in one round.
TheCobra 11-16-06, 10:21 PM	Choose wisely though as in many forms some or all of your gear will fall on the ground when you shift. Uh, no. It'll either meld into the new form or remain worn or held. The one question I have is whether gear melded into one form comes back when you shift into a form that can wear or hold that gear. (For example, if you shift into a beholder and then into a astral deva, your boots come back in the second form.) I've always assumed that it does, but that might not be correct.
Mitchell 11-16-06, 11:40 PM	Time stop Gate* Shapechange Wish Time stop allows me to make a getaway if I need to, or to set up a counter-offensive if I want to. Gate provides some high-powered help, a getaway, etc. We all know how good gate is. Shapechange allows me to become my own high-powered help, if I want to go that way, or to become any number of things that allow me to infiltrate, escape, you name it. Wish just covers all the bases. How can having any wizard spell of 8th level or lower, and any spell of 6th level or lower be a bad thing? Not to mention the ability of this spell to undo so many harmful effects like feeblemind. If I only had three, then gate is the one that I lose. A good spell, but I can get more mileage out of the others day in and day out.
Whirlwind 11-17-06, 02:06 AM	Uh, no. It'll either meld into the new form or remain worn or held. The one question I have is whether gear melded into one form comes back when you shift into a form that can wear or hold that gear. (For example, if you shift into a beholder and then into a astral deva, your boots come back in the second form.) I've always assumed that it does, but that might not be correct. Actually no. If you read the "Polymorph Revisited" articles available on the Wizards website its pretty clear that your gear does NOT meld with you. Instead it resizes to fit your new form, and any gear that could not reasonably be worn by your new form falls off at your feet. With Alter self, Polymorph, Polymorph Other, Polymorph any object, and Shapechange your gear does not meld. The only cases where your gear melds and becomes non-functional are: (1) druid wildshape, and (2) the new monomorph polymorph subschool line of spells such as "Dreaded Form of the Eye Tyrant" or "Dragonshape".
DarkPawn 11-17-06, 02:08 AM	I'm a big fan of Dragonshape. Especially with my familiar close by. :)
TheCobra 11-17-06, 03:12 AM	Actually no. The SRD needs to be updated, then. From alter self: When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional/ f you read the "Polymorph Revisited" articles available on the Wizards website its pretty clear that your gear does NOT meld with you. Those articles don't apply to alter self or any of the related spells.
Neutronium_Dragon 11-17-06, 03:15 AM	Polymorph subschool traits don't. However, the Alter Self, Polymorph, etc, line of spells was also recently subject to a massive errata which changed the way they work, even before the introduction of the Polymorph subschool.
TheCobra 11-17-06, 03:19 AM	However, the Alter Self, Polymorph, etc, line of spells was also recently subject to a massive errata which changed the way they work, even before the introduction of the Polymorph subschool. That's not correct. I'm looking at the errata right now. Alter self isn't in the file. Baleful polymorph is, but that's it.
Whirlwind 11-17-06, 03:28 AM	Polymorph subschool traits don't. However, the Alter Self, Polymorph, etc, line of spells was also recently subject to a massive errata which changed the way they work, even before the introduction of the Polymorph subschool. Do you have a link to this errata? I just checked the game rules section and looked at the errata for the Players Handbook 3.5. There's nothing about any official errata to the mechanics of polymorph there. The only change is the one reducing the hit dice of allowable forms for shapechange. The errata inside the splat books (such as complete mage or players handbook II) specifically state that they don't apply to "spells that have come before" like polymorph and shapechange.
runestar 11-17-06, 04:14 AM	The much hyped "polymorph" ironically did not affect the polymorph subschool of spells at all.;) They remain as they are.
Bladegeek 11-17-06, 10:42 AM	Time stop Gate Summon Elemental Monolith
CuttinCurt 11-17-06, 12:58 PM	I know we are speaking of strikly 9th lvl spells from the PHB. But metamagic 7th or 8th lvl spells that put them in a 9th slot could be just as effective unilateral as Shapechange and Timestop, both of which can fit a multitude of situations. I am just putting this out there even though the original poster was thinking strictly 9th lvl spells. Besides, there is probably not a mage out there that doesnt have atleast 1 metamagic at 17th level. As a side note, I have a 15th lvl caster and I just took my first Metamagic feat of Quicken spell. So... who cares right? hehe
Daxen 11-18-06, 09:16 AM	1-2 Times Stops, and whatever other spells caught my fancy that day. Time Stop is just too useful. 9th level spells are how spell casters shape their world I cannot think of any other spell that I would memorize all the time.
epifreak 11-18-06, 12:29 PM	I know we are speaking of strikly 9th lvl spells from the PHB. But metamagic 7th or 8th lvl spells that put them in a 9th slot could be just as effective unilateral as Shapechange and Timestop, both of which can fit a multitude of situations. Yeah, I've heard maxxed disintigrate can be pretty nasty, so if you're throwing a combat spell on there, that one probably merits thought.
runestar 11-18-06, 09:57 PM	Yeah, I've heard maxxed disintigrate can be pretty nasty, so if you're throwing a combat spell on there, that one probably merits thought. Anything can be nasty so as the enemy fails his saving throw...;)
Magetastic 11-19-06, 05:45 AM	No one remembered foresight? As in never be surprised or assainated or fall into a trap and knowing when to cast your shorter duration buff spells on you and your party so you dont have to waste time in the middle of combat?! what is wrong with you people?! so my list is -timestop -foresight -absorbtion (with sudden maximize and a greater rod of empower) if i had a 4rth one shapechange would be up there.
runestar 11-19-06, 08:13 AM	Extended mindblank is not bad. It lasts for 2 days, so cast it on all your PCs(assuming you have 5 slots), then rest to regain all your spells. Then journey at full strength...:P This also works on other spells with a duration of 1 day(or almost there), like greater magic weapon, moment of prescience etc...
lurking_archmage 11-22-06, 01:55 AM	As a long-time wizard player.... Shapechange -- can't be beat for versatility. Time Stop -- have to chime in with everyone else, this spell is infinitely useful. Prismatic Sphere -- nice to hide behind of course, handy in many pinches, and hard to look at besides. Meteor Swarm * (Why no love for the ultimate boom-daddy spell? this is especially nice if you use Energy Substitution for a surprise twist... Electric and Sonic meteor swarms are particularly sinister and devastating to most opponents... and a single opponent does NOT get a saving throw if you shoot all four meteors at him...)