Choosing a 5th level wizard spell [Archive] - Wizards Community

Choosing a 5th level wizard spell [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
trivo
02-25-05, 01:18 PM Hi, I'm playing a wizard 7/Incantatrix 3. I need some help in choosing a 5th level spell. I've already chosen Cone of Cold, Overland Flight and Teleport. I'm thinking about Cloudkill or Prying Eyes but am not sure. Any tips would be helpful. Thanks
Santrilla
02-25-05, 01:29 PM Personally, I'd go for cloudkill. The ability to kill a crowd of creatures in one go is simply too good to pass up.
Ogre4Hire
02-25-05, 02:04 PM Telekinisis. It's just such a versitile spell.

Cloudkill is okay, but it gets weak pretty quickly.
tarkin
02-25-05, 02:25 PM The 5th level ones I like include:

Empowered Fireball
Extended Ice storm (does 5d6 no save for two rounds nasty surprise if they have not seen it before...)

I also like:
Break Enchantment
Teleport
Fabricate
Wall of Force

When you hit 11th level start thinking about Empowered Schorching Ray and Repeat Spell Scorching Ray.
trivo
02-25-05, 02:47 PM hmmm. thanks for the tips. I'm thinking of a cloudkill, if you first had your enemies inside solid fog. Now this would take two rounds, and i really don't like the fact that the cloudkill is rolling away uncontrollable. Perhaps an empowered fireball (as Tarkin pointed out) or a Cone of cold would do better?
Metabubbles
02-25-05, 02:50 PM Wall of force. Trap your enemies, 'fly' and just way-lay fireballs...Or trap the most powerful ones and run...

Telekinesis is way powerful, and versatile.

My picks, in order.
Bregalad
02-25-05, 02:50 PM Definitely one of the best 5th level spells around, imo, and not used that often. Multitude of uses, even without the globe effect that was available in 3.0. Examples:

Use WoF to split attacking groups in two, turn the 10 versus 4 fight into 5 versus 4 just like that. Dispel it when you are ready to take on the next group. (D)

Use WoF to cover your retreat. Running away and ensuring there is no chase.

Use WoF as cover: stops arrows, spells and dragons breath with relative ease. Set it up right and you can fire around it.

Use WoF to cross canyons, pits, lava pools and anything else you need. Blocks portals, closes doors, stops thiefs, diverts acid splashes. Even used it to isolate our group while everyone healed up and added protection magic before (this takes coordination but possible) getting back into the fight. Its the spell we used to defeat an adamantine golem (walled it in another room).

Not much effects it either, and its better having that disentergate take down the WoF than take down someone in the party.

Might want to talk with your DM and see how the "thing in the way nullifies the spell" limitation will come into play, but give it some thought.
gman
02-25-05, 02:58 PM If you are playing Forgotten Realms, and are looking for a nice evocation spell, Firebrand is about as good as it gets at that level. Nice way to make sure your tanks don't get crispy from a fireball. They always appreciate that.
trivo
02-25-05, 03:17 PM Wall of force seems like a nice spell in emergencies... Think i just might go for that one...

I do play Forgotten Realms, but i don't have the book with the Firebrand spell description :( . What does it do?
tarkin
02-25-05, 03:53 PM Don't underestimate fabricate.

While it is not a combat spell, it can be incredibally usefull for non-combat situations, making both cash, and emergency equiptment like a 100 ft ladder, etc. etc. etc.

Someone mentioned Telekineses. That is a wierd spell. In the right situation (read ambush with lots of Large sized Great Swords), it can be incredibally nasty: at 9th level it can do 9 * 3d6 of damage. (requires 9 regular bab thrown attacks using Int/Cha instead of Dex).

But most of the time, it is not the best combat spell.
yonman
02-25-05, 06:13 PM While it is not a combat spell, it can be incredibally usefull for non-combat situations, making both cash, and emergency equiptment like a 100 ft ladder, etc. etc. etc.

I have a question regarding Fabricate.
SRD:
Material Component: The original material, which costs the same amount as the raw materials required to craft the item to be created.

Does this mean that if you were going to make a 100' ladder that you would need 100' of wood that would cost the same as if you had bought a 100' ladder? If you were going to make an iron longsword, would you need the same volume of raw iron to make the longsword?

How much of the raw material do you need?
eRaz0r
02-25-05, 06:30 PM Nitpick - Wall of Force can't be placed horizontally in 3.5.

Wall of Stone is what you use for making bridges and towers and the like. It also has many of the uses the Wall of Force does, except it's less resistant to attack.

Cone of Cold is a pretty lame spell actually. The only difference between it and Fireball is the higher damage cap and the [cold] descriptor. That's hardly worth 2 levels. An Empowered Fireball is in all ways superior (except against fire resistant creatures) than Cone of Cold.

Contrast.
Empowered Fireball @ 10th level = 10d6 * 1.5 (equiv 15d6)
Cone of Cold @ 10th level = 10d6.

At 15th level
Empowered Fireball @ 15th level = 10d6 (capped) * 1.5 (equiv 15d6)
Cone of Cold @ 15th levle = 15d6.

So as soon as you can get Cone of Cold, Empowered Fireball is better. When you finallly get to 15th level and CoC is capped, Empowered Fireball is the same.

I'd only take CoC if
a) I didn't have empower, and even then, it wouldn't be first choice,
b) I was facing a lot of Fire resistant enemies.

In any case, Prying Eyes is an excellent spell, as is Scrying and Locate Creature.
Good Intelligence can make everyone's job easier.
Another I'd consider :
Waves of Fatigue - everyone in a 30' cone gets fatigued without a save. (although SR applies). Have you seen what fatigued does to you ? -2 to Str and Dex and can't run or charge and you need 8 hours of complete rest to recover. Follow it up with Ray of Exhaustion (3rd) on the nastiest enemy for instant Exhaustion (no matter if they save or not) (-6 to STR and DEX). Nasty.
Of course this then opens them up to any number of Touch attacks because of the dex penalty.
mr.unknown
02-25-05, 06:32 PM it'll greatly increase the mobility of your entire party. someone else mentioned wall of force which is great for all kinds of situations offensive & defensive.

dismissal is a good instant "kill" spell against outsiders, but there's a pretty good chance the enemy will save against it through either SR or saving throw.
eRaz0r
02-25-05, 06:33 PM I have a question regarding Fabricate.
SRD:

Does this mean that if you were going to make a 100' ladder that you would need 100' of wood that would cost the same as if you had bought a 100' ladder? If you were going to make an iron longsword, would you need the same volume of raw iron to make the longsword?

How much of the raw material do you need?

According to the (broken) crafting rules, you need to have 1/3 the items price in raw materials. This is what the spell requires.
trivo
02-25-05, 07:04 PM I agree that cone of cold isn't as good empowered fireball at 10th level. The main reason why i did choose it though is because we meet fire-resistant creatures WAY too often. Around 50 % of the encounters lately, we've run into fire/electricity-resistant or fire-immune monsters.

I'm more of the combat wizard, so i don't think i'll choose fabricate. And when it comes to outsiders, the party has one cleric and one mystic theurge so i'll let them deal with that.

However our party only has one fighter and he is often absent, so i'm wondering which offensive spells are best? The cleric is the main fighter, but he is such a coward :rolleyes: (really, serious) plus i wanna do my share too.
So which spells can solve our problems?
Vatras
02-26-05, 02:20 AM Firebrand is in Magic of Faerun (its a 3.0 spell), which causes in medium range your casterlevel in 5´radius bursts of flame (at 9th level you get 9 such explosions), which deal 1d6 firedamage per level (max. 15d6). The burst can be arranged any way you like within the range, overlapping bursts do not cause more damage in that spot, a R save halves the damage.

Its an incredible good nuke as you can choose one target area per level somewhere within a large area, avoiding friends and catching foes standing too far apart for fireball.
(I have the nagging suspicion there is a reason, why so many spells from that book did not get a reprint in 3.5.)

From the PHB I recommend Feeblemind, Wall of Force, Magic Jar or Passwall. My favorite is the Jar, but many DMs will not like you using it, especially after one or two demonstrations.
runestar
02-26-05, 10:41 AM I agree, I usually put off acquiring cone of cold until lv13-14, since an empowered fireball is so much better, until lv15, that is, when cone of cold gives +2dc. Al lv9-10, you are better off with metamagicked damage spells, leaving you room for more utilitarian spells like teleport or telekinesis.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
trivo 02-25-05, 01:18 PM	Hi, I'm playing a wizard 7/Incantatrix 3. I need some help in choosing a 5th level spell. I've already chosen Cone of Cold, Overland Flight and Teleport. I'm thinking about Cloudkill or Prying Eyes but am not sure. Any tips would be helpful. Thanks
Santrilla 02-25-05, 01:29 PM	Personally, I'd go for cloudkill. The ability to kill a crowd of creatures in one go is simply too good to pass up.
Ogre4Hire 02-25-05, 02:04 PM	Telekinisis. It's just such a versitile spell. Cloudkill is okay, but it gets weak pretty quickly.
tarkin 02-25-05, 02:25 PM	The 5th level ones I like include: Empowered Fireball Extended Ice storm (does 5d6 no save for two rounds nasty surprise if they have not seen it before...) I also like: Break Enchantment Teleport Fabricate Wall of Force When you hit 11th level start thinking about Empowered Schorching Ray and Repeat Spell Scorching Ray.
trivo 02-25-05, 02:47 PM	hmmm. thanks for the tips. I'm thinking of a cloudkill, if you first had your enemies inside solid fog. Now this would take two rounds, and i really don't like the fact that the cloudkill is rolling away uncontrollable. Perhaps an empowered fireball (as Tarkin pointed out) or a Cone of cold would do better?
Metabubbles 02-25-05, 02:50 PM	Wall of force. Trap your enemies, 'fly' and just way-lay fireballs...Or trap the most powerful ones and run... Telekinesis is way powerful, and versatile. My picks, in order.
Bregalad 02-25-05, 02:50 PM	Definitely one of the best 5th level spells around, imo, and not used that often. Multitude of uses, even without the globe effect that was available in 3.0. Examples: Use WoF to split attacking groups in two, turn the 10 versus 4 fight into 5 versus 4 just like that. Dispel it when you are ready to take on the next group. (D) Use WoF to cover your retreat. Running away and ensuring there is no chase. Use WoF as cover: stops arrows, spells and dragons breath with relative ease. Set it up right and you can fire around it. Use WoF to cross canyons, pits, lava pools and anything else you need. Blocks portals, closes doors, stops thiefs, diverts acid splashes. Even used it to isolate our group while everyone healed up and added protection magic before (this takes coordination but possible) getting back into the fight. Its the spell we used to defeat an adamantine golem (walled it in another room). Not much effects it either, and its better having that disentergate take down the WoF than take down someone in the party. Might want to talk with your DM and see how the "thing in the way nullifies the spell" limitation will come into play, but give it some thought.
gman 02-25-05, 02:58 PM	If you are playing Forgotten Realms, and are looking for a nice evocation spell, Firebrand is about as good as it gets at that level. Nice way to make sure your tanks don't get crispy from a fireball. They always appreciate that.
trivo 02-25-05, 03:17 PM	Wall of force seems like a nice spell in emergencies... Think i just might go for that one... I do play Forgotten Realms, but i don't have the book with the Firebrand spell description :( . What does it do?
tarkin 02-25-05, 03:53 PM	Don't underestimate fabricate. While it is not a combat spell, it can be incredibally usefull for non-combat situations, making both cash, and emergency equiptment like a 100 ft ladder, etc. etc. etc. Someone mentioned Telekineses. That is a wierd spell. In the right situation (read ambush with lots of Large sized Great Swords), it can be incredibally nasty: at 9th level it can do 9 * 3d6 of damage. (requires 9 regular bab thrown attacks using Int/Cha instead of Dex). But most of the time, it is not the best combat spell.
yonman 02-25-05, 06:13 PM	While it is not a combat spell, it can be incredibally usefull for non-combat situations, making both cash, and emergency equiptment like a 100 ft ladder, etc. etc. etc. I have a question regarding Fabricate. SRD: Material Component: The original material, which costs the same amount as the raw materials required to craft the item to be created. Does this mean that if you were going to make a 100' ladder that you would need 100' of wood that would cost the same as if you had bought a 100' ladder? If you were going to make an iron longsword, would you need the same volume of raw iron to make the longsword? How much of the raw material do you need?
eRaz0r 02-25-05, 06:30 PM	Nitpick - Wall of Force can't be placed horizontally in 3.5. Wall of Stone is what you use for making bridges and towers and the like. It also has many of the uses the Wall of Force does, except it's less resistant to attack. Cone of Cold is a pretty lame spell actually. The only difference between it and Fireball is the higher damage cap and the [cold] descriptor. That's hardly worth 2 levels. An Empowered Fireball is in all ways superior (except against fire resistant creatures) than Cone of Cold. Contrast. Empowered Fireball @ 10th level = 10d6 * 1.5 (equiv 15d6) Cone of Cold @ 10th level = 10d6. At 15th level Empowered Fireball @ 15th level = 10d6 (capped) * 1.5 (equiv 15d6) Cone of Cold @ 15th levle = 15d6. So as soon as you can get Cone of Cold, Empowered Fireball is better. When you finallly get to 15th level and CoC is capped, Empowered Fireball is the same. I'd only take CoC if a) I didn't have empower, and even then, it wouldn't be first choice, b) I was facing a lot of Fire resistant enemies. In any case, Prying Eyes is an excellent spell, as is Scrying and Locate Creature. Good Intelligence can make everyone's job easier. Another I'd consider : Waves of Fatigue - everyone in a 30' cone gets fatigued without a save. (although SR applies). Have you seen what fatigued does to you ? -2 to Str and Dex and can't run or charge and you need 8 hours of complete rest to recover. Follow it up with Ray of Exhaustion (3rd) on the nastiest enemy for instant Exhaustion (no matter if they save or not) (-6 to STR and DEX). Nasty. Of course this then opens them up to any number of Touch attacks because of the dex penalty.
mr.unknown 02-25-05, 06:32 PM	it'll greatly increase the mobility of your entire party. someone else mentioned wall of force which is great for all kinds of situations offensive & defensive. dismissal is a good instant "kill" spell against outsiders, but there's a pretty good chance the enemy will save against it through either SR or saving throw.
eRaz0r 02-25-05, 06:33 PM	I have a question regarding Fabricate. SRD: Does this mean that if you were going to make a 100' ladder that you would need 100' of wood that would cost the same as if you had bought a 100' ladder? If you were going to make an iron longsword, would you need the same volume of raw iron to make the longsword? How much of the raw material do you need? According to the (broken) crafting rules, you need to have 1/3 the items price in raw materials. This is what the spell requires.
trivo 02-25-05, 07:04 PM	I agree that cone of cold isn't as good empowered fireball at 10th level. The main reason why i did choose it though is because we meet fire-resistant creatures WAY too often. Around 50 % of the encounters lately, we've run into fire/electricity-resistant or fire-immune monsters. I'm more of the combat wizard, so i don't think i'll choose fabricate. And when it comes to outsiders, the party has one cleric and one mystic theurge so i'll let them deal with that. However our party only has one fighter and he is often absent, so i'm wondering which offensive spells are best? The cleric is the main fighter, but he is such a coward :rolleyes: (really, serious) plus i wanna do my share too. So which spells can solve our problems?
Vatras 02-26-05, 02:20 AM	Firebrand is in Magic of Faerun (its a 3.0 spell), which causes in medium range your casterlevel in 5´radius bursts of flame (at 9th level you get 9 such explosions), which deal 1d6 firedamage per level (max. 15d6). The burst can be arranged any way you like within the range, overlapping bursts do not cause more damage in that spot, a R save halves the damage. Its an incredible good nuke as you can choose one target area per level somewhere within a large area, avoiding friends and catching foes standing too far apart for fireball. (I have the nagging suspicion there is a reason, why so many spells from that book did not get a reprint in 3.5.) From the PHB I recommend Feeblemind, Wall of Force, Magic Jar or Passwall. My favorite is the Jar, but many DMs will not like you using it, especially after one or two demonstrations.
runestar 02-26-05, 10:41 AM	I agree, I usually put off acquiring cone of cold until lv13-14, since an empowered fireball is so much better, until lv15, that is, when cone of cold gives +2dc. Al lv9-10, you are better off with metamagicked damage spells, leaving you room for more utilitarian spells like teleport or telekinesis.