Circle Kick + Inflict Moderate Wounds - Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Circle Kick + Inflict Moderate Wounds - Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LFnunes
03-23-06, 05:43 AM Hi,

I've got a question for the experts :)

I'm a Monk using an unarmed attack with the Circle Kick feat.

Circle Kick [General]
You kick multiple opponents with the same attack action.
Prerequisites: BAB +3, Improved Unarmed Strike, Dex 15+.
Benefit: A successful unarmed attack roll allows you to make a second attack roll against a different opponent that is within the area that you threaten. This feat requires the full attack action.

If i hit an opponent with an unarmed attack i get a circle kick on the opponent in the next 5 feet.
Can i discharge a inflict mderate wounds with the Circle Kick?

Let me know
Tks
Hennet
03-23-06, 07:00 AM No. You can't hold the charge of inflict moderate wounds; it has a duration of instantaneous which means, as soon as you cast the spell it is let out of your body instantly (you get to make the attak roll with the inflict moderate wounds as part of the casting all taking 1 standard action ) and an melee attack also takes 1 standard action, and characters don't get more than 1 standard action per round.

So, no you can't.

Though there is a prestige class called Enlightened Fist (Complete Arcane), that lets you use melee touch spells as part of a unarmed attack. I think that the class is intended for Monk/Wizard or Monk/Sorcerers, though it could be altered slightly changing the requirement from Arcane Caster Level: 3rd TO Divine Caster Level: 3rd.
runestar
03-23-06, 07:16 AM From the SRD...
When laying your hand upon a creature, you channel negative energy that deals 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +5).
Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell cures such a creature of a like amount of damage, rather than harming it.

Its viability depends on how you interpret circle kick. Its name suggests you make the bonus attack as a kick(ie: you use your leg), while inflict spells have to be delivered with your hands. You are allowed to hold a touch spell indefinitely, so as long as you refrain from using your hands in combat(possible since you can use any part of your body as an unarmed strike), you can avoid discharging it unnecessary.

However, the actual mechanical text of the feat does not state how you make the extra attack, just that you are entitled to one. So while in the spirit of the feats written, I would not allow it, mechanically, its possible. Check with your dm. ;)
Hennet
03-23-06, 07:32 AM EDITED: I was wrong, I kinda missed some paragraphs (oops).
Celas Evriamytholin
03-23-06, 08:28 AM I'm reading the two pages you suggested. (My bad if there are any typos, I'm taking it from the book itself ;) )
P.176 under the Duration section of the Player's Handbook:

The other sections explain all the different types of spell durations, and then they're looking for an explanation for instant effects :
Instantaneous : The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might be long-lasting. For example, a cure light wounds spell lasts only an instant, but the healing it bestows never runs out or goes away.

They just used it as an example to show that an instantaneous effect happens and thats that. Once the healing process is completed, the spell ends, but the healing remains.

A couple of paragraphs below:

Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Some touch spells, such as teleport or water walk, allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

I don't wanna play the 'you are wrong I am right' game =P, but: Any touch spell spell can be held indefinitely unless specified in the spell description, or if you must touch multiple targets. Thats the case of the Teleport (an instantaneous effect) spell. The Water Walk spell has a duration of 10 mins/level, but is still a touch spell. Since you must touch multiple targets, though, you cannot hold the charge and must touch all your intended targets on the same round as you cast the spell.

"You can make touch attacks round after round."
That said, since you hold the charge indefinitely and it doesn't discharge unless you strike the target:
If you attack with an Inflict Moderate Wounds spell, and you miss, you still have the negative energy in your hand, and you can attempt another touch attack the next round, until either your hand touches the target or you miss horribly enough to hit the barn next to the target =P.

Again, to satisfy any further arguments: P.175 of the PHB, under RANGE : Touch

Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells, such as teleport and water walk, allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch as many willing targets as you can reach as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

That last part about 'all targets of the spell..." refers to the exceptions, such as Teleport and Water Walk.

In summary: Yes, you can indefinitely hold a charge as long as you don't touch anything with your hand, although we kind of drifted off from the original question ^.^

To quote LFnunes:
Circle Kick [General]
You kick multiple opponents with the same attack action.
Prerequisites: BAB +3, Improved Unarmed Strike, Dex 15+.
Benefit: A successful unarmed attack roll allows you to make a second attack roll against a different opponent that is within the area that you threaten. This feat requires the full attack action.

If i hit an opponent with an unarmed attack i get a circle kick on the opponent in the next 5 feet.
Can i discharge a inflict mderate wounds with the Circle Kick?

You _kick_ your opponents. Your unarmed attack roll is done with your legs / feet. In the advent that you hit, the momentum of your kick will carry your attack to the next closest target, similarly to a... cleave.

Flurry of blows would do the trick, though, as long as you're attacking with your fists.

Hope this helped.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LFnunes 03-23-06, 05:43 AM	Hi, I've got a question for the experts :) I'm a Monk using an unarmed attack with the Circle Kick feat. Circle Kick [General] You kick multiple opponents with the same attack action. Prerequisites: BAB +3, Improved Unarmed Strike, Dex 15+. Benefit: A successful unarmed attack roll allows you to make a second attack roll against a different opponent that is within the area that you threaten. This feat requires the full attack action. If i hit an opponent with an unarmed attack i get a circle kick on the opponent in the next 5 feet. Can i discharge a inflict mderate wounds with the Circle Kick? Let me know Tks
Hennet 03-23-06, 07:00 AM	No. You can't hold the charge of inflict moderate wounds; it has a duration of instantaneous which means, as soon as you cast the spell it is let out of your body instantly (you get to make the attak roll with the inflict moderate wounds as part of the casting all taking 1 standard action ) and an melee attack also takes 1 standard action, and characters don't get more than 1 standard action per round. So, no you can't. Though there is a prestige class called Enlightened Fist (Complete Arcane), that lets you use melee touch spells as part of a unarmed attack. I think that the class is intended for Monk/Wizard or Monk/Sorcerers, though it could be altered slightly changing the requirement from Arcane Caster Level: 3rd TO Divine Caster Level: 3rd.
runestar 03-23-06, 07:16 AM	From the SRD... When laying your hand upon a creature, you channel negative energy that deals 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +5). Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell cures such a creature of a like amount of damage, rather than harming it. Its viability depends on how you interpret circle kick. Its name suggests you make the bonus attack as a kick(ie: you use your leg), while inflict spells have to be delivered with your hands. You are allowed to hold a touch spell indefinitely, so as long as you refrain from using your hands in combat(possible since you can use any part of your body as an unarmed strike), you can avoid discharging it unnecessary. However, the actual mechanical text of the feat does not state how you make the extra attack, just that you are entitled to one. So while in the spirit of the feats written, I would not allow it, mechanically, its possible. Check with your dm. ;)
Hennet 03-23-06, 07:32 AM	EDITED: I was wrong, I kinda missed some paragraphs (oops).
Celas Evriamytholin 03-23-06, 08:28 AM	I'm reading the two pages you suggested. (My bad if there are any typos, I'm taking it from the book itself ;) ) P.176 under the Duration section of the Player's Handbook: The other sections explain all the different types of spell durations, and then they're looking for an explanation for instant effects : Instantaneous : The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might be long-lasting. For example, a cure light wounds spell lasts only an instant, but the healing it bestows never runs out or goes away. They just used it as an example to show that an instantaneous effect happens and thats that. Once the healing process is completed, the spell ends, but the healing remains. A couple of paragraphs below: Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Some touch spells, such as teleport or water walk, allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell. I don't wanna play the 'you are wrong I am right' game =P, but: Any touch spell spell can be held indefinitely unless specified in the spell description, or if you must touch multiple targets. Thats the case of the Teleport (an instantaneous effect) spell. The Water Walk spell has a duration of 10 mins/level, but is still a touch spell. Since you must touch multiple targets, though, you cannot hold the charge and must touch all your intended targets on the same round as you cast the spell. "You can make touch attacks round after round." That said, since you hold the charge indefinitely and it doesn't discharge unless you strike the target: If you attack with an Inflict Moderate Wounds spell, and you miss, you still have the negative energy in your hand, and you can attempt another touch attack the next round, until either your hand touches the target or you miss horribly enough to hit the barn next to the target =P. Again, to satisfy any further arguments: P.175 of the PHB, under RANGE : Touch Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells, such as teleport and water walk, allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch as many willing targets as you can reach as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. That last part about 'all targets of the spell..." refers to the exceptions, such as Teleport and Water Walk. In summary: Yes, you can indefinitely hold a charge as long as you don't touch anything with your hand, although we kind of drifted off from the original question ^.^ To quote LFnunes: Circle Kick [General] You kick multiple opponents with the same attack action. Prerequisites: BAB +3, Improved Unarmed Strike, Dex 15+. Benefit: A successful unarmed attack roll allows you to make a second attack roll against a different opponent that is within the area that you threaten. This feat requires the full attack action. If i hit an opponent with an unarmed attack i get a circle kick on the opponent in the next 5 feet. Can i discharge a inflict mderate wounds with the Circle Kick? You _kick_ your opponents. Your unarmed attack roll is done with your legs / feet. In the advent that you hit, the momentum of your kick will carry your attack to the next closest target, similarly to a... cleave. Flurry of blows would do the trick, though, as long as you're attacking with your fists. Hope this helped.