Clarifiaction on exact function of find the path. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Clarifiaction on exact function of find the path. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
[GSV] Kirstar
09-25-06, 10:18 AM Spell description from SRD.

Find the Path
Divination
Level: Brd 6, Clr 6, Drd 6, Knowledge 6, Travel 6
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 3 rounds
Range: Personal or touch
Target: You or creature touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: None or Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: No or Yes (harmless)
The recipient of this spell can find the shortest, most direct physical route to a specified destination, be it the way into or out of a locale. The locale can be outdoors, underground, or even inside a maze spell. Find the path works with respect to locations, not objects or creatures at a locale. The location must be on the same plane as you are at the time of casting.
The spell enables the subject to sense the correct direction that will eventually lead it to its destination, indicating at appropriate times the exact path to follow or physical actions to take. For example, the spell enables the subject to sense trip wires or the proper word to bypass a glyph of warding. The spell ends when the destination is reached or the duration expires, whichever comes first. Find the path can be used to remove the subject and its companions from the effect of a maze spell in a single round.
This divination is keyed to the recipient, not its companions, and its effect does not predict or allow for the actions of creatures (including guardians).
Focus: A set of divination counters of the sort you favor.

Now from reading this it appears that no matter the dungeon, no matter the traps You can bypass them with one spell.
Seeker95
09-25-06, 11:42 AM Not quite. It lets you detect them.
And it lets you know how to bypass them.
That does not mean you *can* bypass them.

If the lever to bypass the trap is in the BBEG's bedroom, you know this.
It does not let you pull the lever remotely.
tarkin
09-25-06, 11:43 AM While it is a powerfull spell, there are many problems with what you describe.

The main ones are:

1) It only works to find locations. You can't use it to figure out how to bypass a trap unless the trap is on the route to that location and the only quick way is to disarm it.

2) It will only let you bypass something you can bypass. I.E. If a magical trap is set up to blow up when any non-elf crosses it, then there is no way for a non-elf to bypass it.
[GSV] Kirstar
09-26-06, 08:41 AM yeassssss

I know this

What I am saying is there is no point puttin traps into a dungeon / complex that can be bypassed by someone in the know, because this spell makes you someone in the know
Seeker95
09-26-06, 09:32 AM Kirstar']What I am saying is there is no point puttin traps into a dungeon / complex that can be bypassed by someone in the know, because this spell makes you someone in the knowThere is no reason for putting locks on a door since a lock can be bypassed by anyone with a key.
There is no point in wearing armor because it can be bypassed by anyone with a touch attack.
There is no point in carrying a weapon, because it can be ignored by anyone who is incorporeal.
There is no point in being a wizard because your spells can be countered by anyone with a counterspell.
There is no point in running an adventure, because the players are going to get the treasure and level up.

There is no point in playing D&D. Just invite your friends over at 3:00. Tell jokes until 5:00. Order pizza. End the campaign at 7:00 after all the players have decided what their 20th level characters would have looked like if they had gone through the obstacles and challenges.
[GSV] Kirstar
09-26-06, 10:02 AM Im having issues designing a dungeon to protect something as a player, not as a DM

If I was the DM in this instance it wouldnt be a problem.

basically there is a large object that cannot be moved that I dont want anyone to have access to unless they should have.

so I built a great big maze round it and used the equiv of guards and wards effects with the, + every trick you can think of like 1 way doors, illusions, moveable walls nasty physical and magical traps as well as a couple of cleaner type monsters that dont need lots of care and feeding.

After I built the maze I built a large hill over the top and and attracted monsters and various unsavory animal to the area to protect it and keep others away.

I have addressed telportation, elemental forms, etheral travel, as well as a couple of other things. But it annoys the hell out of me that a single spell bypasses all my defences other than my silly cleaner monsters.

Now I know a pries who can cast 6th level spells isnt an insignificant person, but still.

The nature of the complex is that you need to be able to have access and bypass the trap to gain entry.

I honestly cant think of a way to project it :(
Seeker95
09-26-06, 01:31 PM Find the Path will not work across planes. Have the path involve a plane shift or astral travel to get from point A to point B. Place the object into a bag of holding and it cannot be detected by find the path at all.

Further, Find the Path does not target objects in the first place. It is a spell used for "the quickest route to the exit" or "the shortest route to the city". Don't put the object at a definable point in the maze (like "the center" or "the exit") and find the path cannot get you there.
[GSV] Kirstar
09-26-06, 03:50 PM Unfortunately I dont have much choice, its an immovable permanent planar portal (similar to gate spell)

trouble is that evil cultist types like to summon lots of nasties through the thing and even though I like the XP people keep getting sacrificed and eaten etc
Jhaelen
09-26-06, 04:16 PM Kirstar']What I am saying is there is no point puttin traps into a dungeon / complex [...]Congratulations! You just discovered one of D&D's greatest secrets: traps are an incredibly ineffective way to secure or defend anything (with a few rare exceptions). Especially when considering the prohibitive costs of (most) traps, they simply don't make much sense.
Their main reason for existence is to be discovered and disabled by rogues.
Tsuul
09-26-06, 05:01 PM Don't put the object at a definable point in the maze (like "the center" or "the exit") and find the path cannot get you there.Repeated to be read again.
While you can't move the thing, you are building the maze. Build it different. If you have already built the maze, then go buy a lyre of building and start renovating.
Build decoy gates. Give the rooms they reside in unique designs (cresent shaped room). Then spread that knowledge. Of course you should trap the decoy. Find the path will lead to the room and it's effect ends, it should not help on any traps inside.
strenoth
09-26-06, 11:19 PM better yet... Don't have a path to it. Carv out the cavern until it's very, very big, and through some combination fo spells, flood the room with lead, so it's now a lead hemisphere with the gate stuck in the center.

Now, using magic, dig out 1/3 of the ground underneath it in a shape matchign 1/3 of the hemisphere, fill with lead, rinse & repeat. The fabrication spell is useful here to bind all this lead into 1 seamless peace.

THe gate is now stuck in the center of a lead sphere, hopefully abotu 100' across. This defeats many spells, and there is no room to access it anyway(zero gap, has to be unsealed first, etc)

Now enchant the hell out of that sphere: not traps, but denial spells, such as preventing ethereal or incorpreal creatures from passing through, and anti-divination pells (though 100' of lead protects against a lot of those too). Use your imagination.

Now close up and make perfectly seamless all tunells that were even vaguely connected to the area of the gate.

Next, contract with the most powerful earth-dwellers you can contact (such as earth elementals, or other things with an in-ground movement speed that does not leave a tunnel), and their only duty is to let no one acces the sphere or the gate. Other than that, live life as they please in it's vicinity.

On a regular basis, add more powerful critters to that population.

That is about as well defended as you are going to make it, if you want to be able to leave it unattended by PCs
[GSV] Kirstar
09-27-06, 03:06 AM Thanks guys

I honestly never thought of decoys and stuff.

Cant see teh wood for the trees and all that.

I wish there was a better spell than "seal Portal" from MotP
CaoSlayer
09-27-06, 03:20 AM Still, it is a rare barely used spell and a very limited use and this only "broken" use that it is bypassing traps can be emulated with a big array of spells, this spell it is near useless because we all know that adventures are going to explore up to the last inch of a dungeon in search of treasure and eventually they will find the main quest location..

Dont deserves to be nerfed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
[GSV] Kirstar 09-25-06, 10:18 AM	Spell description from SRD. Find the Path Divination Level: Brd 6, Clr 6, Drd 6, Knowledge 6, Travel 6 Components: V, S, F Casting Time: 3 rounds Range: Personal or touch Target: You or creature touched Duration: 10 min./level Saving Throw: None or Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: No or Yes (harmless) The recipient of this spell can find the shortest, most direct physical route to a specified destination, be it the way into or out of a locale. The locale can be outdoors, underground, or even inside a maze spell. Find the path works with respect to locations, not objects or creatures at a locale. The location must be on the same plane as you are at the time of casting. The spell enables the subject to sense the correct direction that will eventually lead it to its destination, indicating at appropriate times the exact path to follow or physical actions to take. For example, the spell enables the subject to sense trip wires or the proper word to bypass a glyph of warding. The spell ends when the destination is reached or the duration expires, whichever comes first. Find the path can be used to remove the subject and its companions from the effect of a maze spell in a single round. This divination is keyed to the recipient, not its companions, and its effect does not predict or allow for the actions of creatures (including guardians). Focus: A set of divination counters of the sort you favor. Now from reading this it appears that no matter the dungeon, no matter the traps You can bypass them with one spell.
Seeker95 09-25-06, 11:42 AM	Not quite. It lets you detect them. And it lets you know how to bypass them. That does not mean you can bypass them. If the lever to bypass the trap is in the BBEG's bedroom, you know this. It does not let you pull the lever remotely.
tarkin 09-25-06, 11:43 AM	While it is a powerfull spell, there are many problems with what you describe. The main ones are: 1) It only works to find locations. You can't use it to figure out how to bypass a trap unless the trap is on the route to that location and the only quick way is to disarm it. 2) It will only let you bypass something you can bypass. I.E. If a magical trap is set up to blow up when any non-elf crosses it, then there is no way for a non-elf to bypass it.
[GSV] Kirstar 09-26-06, 08:41 AM	yeassssss I know this What I am saying is there is no point puttin traps into a dungeon / complex that can be bypassed by someone in the know, because this spell makes you someone in the know
Seeker95 09-26-06, 09:32 AM	Kirstar']What I am saying is there is no point puttin traps into a dungeon / complex that can be bypassed by someone in the know, because this spell makes you someone in the knowThere is no reason for putting locks on a door since a lock can be bypassed by anyone with a key. There is no point in wearing armor because it can be bypassed by anyone with a touch attack. There is no point in carrying a weapon, because it can be ignored by anyone who is incorporeal. There is no point in being a wizard because your spells can be countered by anyone with a counterspell. There is no point in running an adventure, because the players are going to get the treasure and level up. There is no point in playing D&D. Just invite your friends over at 3:00. Tell jokes until 5:00. Order pizza. End the campaign at 7:00 after all the players have decided what their 20th level characters would have looked like if they had gone through the obstacles and challenges.
[GSV] Kirstar 09-26-06, 10:02 AM	Im having issues designing a dungeon to protect something as a player, not as a DM If I was the DM in this instance it wouldnt be a problem. basically there is a large object that cannot be moved that I dont want anyone to have access to unless they should have. so I built a great big maze round it and used the equiv of guards and wards effects with the, + every trick you can think of like 1 way doors, illusions, moveable walls nasty physical and magical traps as well as a couple of cleaner type monsters that dont need lots of care and feeding. After I built the maze I built a large hill over the top and and attracted monsters and various unsavory animal to the area to protect it and keep others away. I have addressed telportation, elemental forms, etheral travel, as well as a couple of other things. But it annoys the hell out of me that a single spell bypasses all my defences other than my silly cleaner monsters. Now I know a pries who can cast 6th level spells isnt an insignificant person, but still. The nature of the complex is that you need to be able to have access and bypass the trap to gain entry. I honestly cant think of a way to project it :(
Seeker95 09-26-06, 01:31 PM	Find the Path will not work across planes. Have the path involve a plane shift or astral travel to get from point A to point B. Place the object into a bag of holding and it cannot be detected by find the path at all. Further, Find the Path does not target objects in the first place. It is a spell used for "the quickest route to the exit" or "the shortest route to the city". Don't put the object at a definable point in the maze (like "the center" or "the exit") and find the path cannot get you there.
[GSV] Kirstar 09-26-06, 03:50 PM	Unfortunately I dont have much choice, its an immovable permanent planar portal (similar to gate spell) trouble is that evil cultist types like to summon lots of nasties through the thing and even though I like the XP people keep getting sacrificed and eaten etc
Jhaelen 09-26-06, 04:16 PM	Kirstar']What I am saying is there is no point puttin traps into a dungeon / complex [...]Congratulations! You just discovered one of D&D's greatest secrets: traps are an incredibly ineffective way to secure or defend anything (with a few rare exceptions). Especially when considering the prohibitive costs of (most) traps, they simply don't make much sense. Their main reason for existence is to be discovered and disabled by rogues.
Tsuul 09-26-06, 05:01 PM	Don't put the object at a definable point in the maze (like "the center" or "the exit") and find the path cannot get you there.Repeated to be read again. While you can't move the thing, you are building the maze. Build it different. If you have already built the maze, then go buy a lyre of building and start renovating. Build decoy gates. Give the rooms they reside in unique designs (cresent shaped room). Then spread that knowledge. Of course you should trap the decoy. Find the path will lead to the room and it's effect ends, it should not help on any traps inside.
strenoth 09-26-06, 11:19 PM	better yet... Don't have a path to it. Carv out the cavern until it's very, very big, and through some combination fo spells, flood the room with lead, so it's now a lead hemisphere with the gate stuck in the center. Now, using magic, dig out 1/3 of the ground underneath it in a shape matchign 1/3 of the hemisphere, fill with lead, rinse & repeat. The fabrication spell is useful here to bind all this lead into 1 seamless peace. THe gate is now stuck in the center of a lead sphere, hopefully abotu 100' across. This defeats many spells, and there is no room to access it anyway(zero gap, has to be unsealed first, etc) Now enchant the hell out of that sphere: not traps, but denial spells, such as preventing ethereal or incorpreal creatures from passing through, and anti-divination pells (though 100' of lead protects against a lot of those too). Use your imagination. Now close up and make perfectly seamless all tunells that were even vaguely connected to the area of the gate. Next, contract with the most powerful earth-dwellers you can contact (such as earth elementals, or other things with an in-ground movement speed that does not leave a tunnel), and their only duty is to let no one acces the sphere or the gate. Other than that, live life as they please in it's vicinity. On a regular basis, add more powerful critters to that population. That is about as well defended as you are going to make it, if you want to be able to leave it unattended by PCs
[GSV] Kirstar 09-27-06, 03:06 AM	Thanks guys I honestly never thought of decoys and stuff. Cant see teh wood for the trees and all that. I wish there was a better spell than "seal Portal" from MotP
CaoSlayer 09-27-06, 03:20 AM	Still, it is a rare barely used spell and a very limited use and this only "broken" use that it is bypassing traps can be emulated with a big array of spells, this spell it is near useless because we all know that adventures are going to explore up to the last inch of a dungeon in search of treasure and eventually they will find the main quest location.. Dont deserves to be nerfed.