Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tavish 01-03-07, 08:55 AM	Hello! In the released Spell Compendium, there is a 1st level Ranger spell called Rhino's Rush. It says in the description that it doubles your damage on the charge, but doesn't specify what damage it doubles. Does it double everything (i.e. weapon specialization, other damage modifiers, power attack...)? Thanks for the help as I haven't been able to find any topics regarding this spell.
CantripN 01-03-07, 08:57 AM	All the damage you would double on a Critical Hit. So, basically, everything but bonus dice.
NoldorForce 01-03-07, 09:11 AM	All the damage you would double on a Critical Hit. So, basically, everything but bonus dice.This is an exception specific to critical hits. Additionally, a critical requires rerolling the dice instead of adding a multiplier to the normal result--another exception to the normal procedures of multipliers. @ OP: It's a multiplier, and those (in general) increase the final die roll, which includes modifiers and extra dice.
jaelis 01-03-07, 09:14 AM	I would rule it like CantripN. Extra dice from flaming, sneak attack, etc don't get doubled.
tarkin 01-03-07, 11:51 AM	This is an exception specific to critical hits. Additionally, a critical requires rerolling the dice instead of adding a multiplier to the normal result--another exception to the normal procedures of multipliers. @ OP: It's a multiplier, and those (in general) increase the final die roll, which includes modifiers and extra dice. That "exception specific to critical hits" is used many other places, not just critical hits. The one I have seen most commonly done is Lances, but pretty much any other time I see something say "double damage" it means only applies to things that a critical hit would increase. I agree with Jaelis and CantripN
Vegepygmy 01-03-07, 11:58 AM	I agree with CantripN. Also, remember the doubling rule: "doubling" something twice actually triples (instead of quadruples) it.
Tavish 01-03-07, 12:10 PM	Excellent, my opinion was also that it acted as a Critical Hit and essentially doubled the weapon damage-dice roll. Otherwise it would be way too good.
CantripN 01-03-07, 12:13 PM	Excellent, my opinion was also that it acted as a Critical Hit and essentially doubled the weapon damage-dice roll. Otherwise it would be way too good. What? No. :ahem: You double bonus damage as well. Strength bonus, Power Attack and many other stuff get doubled. Just bonus dice don't. I've had a DM do what you've suggested. It was very anticlimactic to get a Critical Hit.
risner 01-03-07, 12:13 PM	I agree with CantripN. Also, remember the doubling rule: "doubling" something twice actually triples (instead of quadruples) it. /agree 100%
NoldorForce 01-03-07, 12:25 PM	That "exception specific to critical hits" is used many other places, not just critical hits.But not in Rhino's Rush. The entire relevant text is as such:The first charge attack you make before the end of the round deals double damage on a successful hit.There's no need to talk about other stuff like critical hits here; the attack "deals double damage", and thus the entire quantity of damage is doubled. The general text on multipliers doesn't contradict this at all; the rule about not doubling extra dice is specific to critical hits and is specifically noted as an exception to the normal rule. Critical hits are of course the most frequently encountered ways to multiply damage, hence the confusion.
risner 01-03-07, 04:57 PM	But not in Rhino's Rush. The entire relevant text is as such:There's no need to talk about other stuff like critical hits here; /sigh You are confused and incorrect. Check PHB p134. Then come back here and try again (if you can think of another way to assert your position.)
Tavish 01-04-07, 07:50 AM	Thanks CantripN! I got confused there for a second! So all bonus damage is doubled, just not bonus damage dice (i.e. sneak attack, flaming, etc.). That is much better! :) Indeed, most excellent......
NoldorForce 01-04-07, 08:19 AM	/sigh You are confused and incorrect. Check PHB p134. Then come back here and try again (if you can think of another way to assert your position.)This tells me nothing, as I don't have the 3.5 PHB. However, my 3.0 copy has the section on specifically multiplying damage...which led me to the SRD's version, which backs everyone else here up (ie, not me). Odd how it's mentioned in there, but not in the general section on multipliers.
Vegepygmy 01-04-07, 03:14 PM	This tells me nothing, as I don't have the 3.5 PHB.Yeah, it's kind of difficult to participate in a discussion of the game's rules when you don't have an up-to-date copy of them. :rolleyes: