Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hekker 12-04-04, 09:30 AM	In my campaign, I want to use a veil spell to make Ogres look like elfs. However, there is one aspect of the veil spell I don't understand. Is the ogres weapon (a large greatclub) also 'veiled' to look like an elven weapon (for instance a longsword)? And if the weapon is also glamered to look like an elven longsword, will it still do damage as an ogres greatclub? If the weapon isn't veiled along with the ogre, will the ogre in elven veil still be able to use his large greatclub? And is the ogre still able to use his own strength even though he looks like an elf? The text in the 'magic' chapter seems to support that the ogre will to it's normal greatclub damage: "Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding or delaying foes, but useless for attacking them directly.". It doesn't produce any 'real effect', so the ogres attack will still be as strong as it used to be. However, the description of the veil spell states that: "The subjects look, feel, and smell just like the creatures the spell makes them resemble. ". Does this also mean that the veiled ogre will 'feel' like the creature that he resembles (e.g. an elf?) so his weapon will 'feel' like an elf longsword (and do much less damage then a greatclub)? Can anyone help me out?
Bloodtide_the_Red 12-05-04, 03:37 AM	The spell is an illusion, so it can't do anything 'real'. It just changes the way the effected creatures look, feel and smell.....but does not realy change them. 1.Is the ogres weapon (a large greatclub) also 'veiled' to look like an elven weapon (for instance a longsword)? --Yes. any item on the effected creature can be veiled too. 2.And if the weapon is also glamered to look like an elven longsword, will it still do damage as an ogres greatclub? --No matter what the weapon looks(or feels) like, it will always do damage of the weapon of it's type. A great club that looks like a sword will still do greatclub damage. 3.If the weapon isn't veiled along with the ogre, will the ogre in elven veil still be able to use his large greatclub? --Yes. A ogre veiled as anything, can still use anything it could normaly use. A ogre veiled to be a pixie can still pick up a greatclub and swing it. This sure will not 'look right' however, and be a sure tip off that something strange is going on...like an illusion. 4.And is the ogre still able to use his own strength even though he looks like an elf? --Yes. And all if it's normal feats, skills and abilities. You could make a 100 year old human male look like The Rock, but he still has his normal strgenth of 6. The ogre can look like a baby elf, and still has it's strgenth of 20. Keep in mind that a Glamer can't make a real effect. So even if the weapon that hit you looked like a sword and you felt the 'cut' from the sword...you'd realy take bludgeoning damage. So the blow would hit you and feel like a cut, but a second later you'd feel your bones crunch as if hit by a big heavy weight. And once the weapon was gone. you'd still have the bludgeoning damage. This spell can in no way 'leap-frog' to another target and make them think they had taken a diffrent type of damage. The trick to this illusion, and most glamers, is to make the illusion 'close' to the orginal. Give the ogre/elves big thick staffs(not every elf uses a sword), for example, or even no weapons, have them punch and kick...all bludgeoning damage. BT