Cleric Fighter Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cleric Fighter Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
KieranBathgate
11-26-06, 01:14 PM How can my Cleric learn Wraithstrike and Lion's Pounce?

I believe there are ways: Extra Spell feats perhaps? Are there easier ways?

I saw in CAdv that there was a wand of Wraithstrike. How would that work considering it is a personal spell that lasts one round and is a swift action normally to cast? You would cast it as a standard action and then not be able to attack.

Maybe I'm overlooking it...

Thanks a lot for any help at all.
K.
Thomas_Covenant
11-26-06, 03:00 PM For Wraithstrike, I'd pick up the Spell Domain for Anyspell/Greater Anyspell.

The general consensus is Extra Spell can't do this, but you could always ask your DM, that feat tends to start flamewars.

Sadly, yes....the wand of wraithstrike is that useless, the RAW has been debated on this question many times, the answer is clear.
Note that you still can't also use this, unless you have the Magic Domain or some other trick.

As a DM, I allow swift action spells to work as swift action activation, I think it's the right decision, but openly agree it's a house rule that defies RAW.

If you mean Lion's Charge, Druid spells are ironically harder to acquire.
You're better off trying to get a pounce effect from other sources, imho.
KieranBathgate
11-26-06, 03:06 PM Yes I did mean Lion's Charge. I thought that there must have been a domain or something that did the trick.

Thanks for the help.
risner
11-26-06, 03:53 PM How can my Cleric learn Wraithstrike and Lion's Pounce?

I believe there are ways: Extra Spell feats perhaps? Are there easier ways?

I saw in CAdv that there was a wand of Wraithstrike.

You can only use Extra Spell if you can find a printed domain list with those spells that your DM allows you to take as one of your domains. Then you could use Extra Spell to make one of those spells official Cleric spells (which can be prepared in your standard spell slots.)

The wand, you would need to get an Extended Wraithstrike wand AND you would need to spend a standard action to cast it and the next turn perform your attacks (since Extend would last 2 rounds instead of 1 round.)
Seeker95
11-26-06, 04:02 PM How can my Cleric learn Wraithstrike and Lion's Pounce? Miracle
Research it like any other spell
Magic domain
UMD and a scroll
UMD and a wand
Magic item of X
smrtgmp
11-26-06, 04:57 PM You can only use Extra Spell if you can find a printed domain list with those spells that your DM allows you to take as one of your domains.This simply isnt true.

You have no idea how his DM will rule on extra spell. The wording of the feat is too ambiguous for you to tell anyone how their DM will use it.

Some simply allow you to take any spell of your choice. Others limit you to spells already on your spell list, making it worthless for anyone but a spontaneous caster with limited spells known.

@op: Talk to your DM about how they use extra spell in their campaign. If they use the more flexible interpratation, thats your best bet. If not, you might be more or less out of luck. You could, as seeker suggested, research your own versions, but if the DM wont let you pick them up via extra spell than chances are he just doesnt want you to have them (which is understandable, given that the cleric hardly needs any more help).

as to wands of wraithstrike, you're right, they're worthless due to the standard action activation time.
KieranBathgate
11-26-06, 05:30 PM So I'm pretty much relying upon the Extra Spell slot. My DM isn't too bad, I think I'll be fine.

Another quick thing that I should post on the CO boards but what-the-hay:

What is a good build for a Shadowbane Stalker (CAdv). I also want to become a Saint.
Seeker95
11-26-06, 07:17 PM What is a good build for a Shadowbane Stalker (CAdv). I also want to become a Saint.You're right. This is best left to the CO boards.
risner
11-26-06, 08:12 PM This simply isnt true.

You have no idea how his DM will rule on extra spell. The wording of the feat is too ambiguous for you to tell anyone how their DM will use it.

What you say is misleading. The official stance is that Extra Spell works the way I have written. If the OP's DM house rules Extra Spell to have the more liberal reading, more power to him. But it is a house rule, period.
smrtgmp
11-27-06, 03:39 AM What you say is misleading. The official stance is that Extra Spell works the way I have written. If the OP's DM house rules Extra Spell to have the more liberal reading, more power to him. But it is a house rule, period.What official stance? There is no eratta or FAQ, and customer service has provided a slew of contradicting answers.

And how the hell is what I said misleading? I said different DMs rule differently when it comes to extra spell (which is a 100% true statement, and not at all misleading) and that he should check with his DM to see how it works in his game. And thats misleading? Please. :bored:
risner
11-27-06, 05:06 AM What official stance? There is no eratta or FAQ, and customer service has provided a slew of contradicting answers.

There is an official FAQ, and I was 99.9999% you knew about it. So your post has me confounded. Are we talking about Extra Spell feat or not?
Seeker95
11-27-06, 09:37 AM There is an official FAQ?For sake of argument, and to prevent wading through the 80+ page document that you are speaking of...

Could you quote the official FAQ entry for Extra Spell?
risner
11-27-06, 10:36 AM Could you quote the official FAQ entry for Extra Spell?

Can the warmage (Complete Arcane) benefit from the
Extra Spell feat?
No. Extra Spell lets you add one spell to your list of spells
known, but the spell must be taken from your class spell list.
Since the warmage already knows all the spells on his class
spell list, this feat has no effect.

Even if you house rule the feat differently, you still need to house rule another rule:

The Player’s Handbook says a wizard can scribe a spell
from a spellbook or scroll into her spellbook. Can she scribe
a spell from an arcane scroll that isn’t on the wizard’s spell
list?
No. A wizard’s spellbook is limited to spells from the
wizard class spell list.
smrtgmp
11-27-06, 06:26 PM There is an official FAQ, and I was 99.9999% you knew about it. So your post has me confounded. Are we talking about Extra Spell feat or not?I was unaware of that addition to the FAQ. My apologies for the confusion. :embarrass
Seeker95
11-27-06, 07:08 PM risner, thank you very much for the efficient and timely reply. :tiphat:
smrtgmp
11-27-06, 08:25 PM The Player’s Handbook says a wizard can scribe a spell
from a spellbook or scroll into her spellbook. Can she scribe
a spell from an arcane scroll that isn’t on the wizard’s spell
list?
No. A wizard’s spellbook is limited to spells from the
wizard class spell list.Now this response is clearly in error (well, more accurately its somewhat misleading), as it would make the research of personal spells impossible. There would be no mordenkainen or bigby or melf spells if it were impossible to learn spells from outside the wizard spell list.

I wish they would mention things like independant research (at least in passing) when providing an answer to such questions.

For instance, a "However, it is possible for wizards to conduct independat research to add a new spell to their spell list" would be a nice cavet.
risner
11-27-06, 11:14 PM For instance, a "However, it is possible for wizards to conduct independat research to add a new spell to their spell list" would be a nice cavet.

I agree with you.

I believe Independent research is clear enough that any new spell (approved by the DM) is added to the class spell list of the Wizard in question.

I think they either "assumed we knew that" or didn't think to add the caveat about I.R.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KieranBathgate 11-26-06, 01:14 PM	How can my Cleric learn Wraithstrike and Lion's Pounce? I believe there are ways: Extra Spell feats perhaps? Are there easier ways? I saw in CAdv that there was a wand of Wraithstrike. How would that work considering it is a personal spell that lasts one round and is a swift action normally to cast? You would cast it as a standard action and then not be able to attack. Maybe I'm overlooking it... Thanks a lot for any help at all. K.
Thomas_Covenant 11-26-06, 03:00 PM	For Wraithstrike, I'd pick up the Spell Domain for Anyspell/Greater Anyspell. The general consensus is Extra Spell can't do this, but you could always ask your DM, that feat tends to start flamewars. Sadly, yes....the wand of wraithstrike is that useless, the RAW has been debated on this question many times, the answer is clear. Note that you still can't also use this, unless you have the Magic Domain or some other trick. As a DM, I allow swift action spells to work as swift action activation, I think it's the right decision, but openly agree it's a house rule that defies RAW. If you mean Lion's Charge, Druid spells are ironically harder to acquire. You're better off trying to get a pounce effect from other sources, imho.
KieranBathgate 11-26-06, 03:06 PM	Yes I did mean Lion's Charge. I thought that there must have been a domain or something that did the trick. Thanks for the help.
risner 11-26-06, 03:53 PM	How can my Cleric learn Wraithstrike and Lion's Pounce? I believe there are ways: Extra Spell feats perhaps? Are there easier ways? I saw in CAdv that there was a wand of Wraithstrike. You can only use Extra Spell if you can find a printed domain list with those spells that your DM allows you to take as one of your domains. Then you could use Extra Spell to make one of those spells official Cleric spells (which can be prepared in your standard spell slots.) The wand, you would need to get an Extended Wraithstrike wand AND you would need to spend a standard action to cast it and the next turn perform your attacks (since Extend would last 2 rounds instead of 1 round.)
Seeker95 11-26-06, 04:02 PM	How can my Cleric learn Wraithstrike and Lion's Pounce? Miracle Research it like any other spell Magic domain UMD and a scroll UMD and a wand Magic item of X
smrtgmp 11-26-06, 04:57 PM	You can only use Extra Spell if you can find a printed domain list with those spells that your DM allows you to take as one of your domains.This simply isnt true. You have no idea how his DM will rule on extra spell. The wording of the feat is too ambiguous for you to tell anyone how their DM will use it. Some simply allow you to take any spell of your choice. Others limit you to spells already on your spell list, making it worthless for anyone but a spontaneous caster with limited spells known. @op: Talk to your DM about how they use extra spell in their campaign. If they use the more flexible interpratation, thats your best bet. If not, you might be more or less out of luck. You could, as seeker suggested, research your own versions, but if the DM wont let you pick them up via extra spell than chances are he just doesnt want you to have them (which is understandable, given that the cleric hardly needs any more help). as to wands of wraithstrike, you're right, they're worthless due to the standard action activation time.
KieranBathgate 11-26-06, 05:30 PM	So I'm pretty much relying upon the Extra Spell slot. My DM isn't too bad, I think I'll be fine. Another quick thing that I should post on the CO boards but what-the-hay: What is a good build for a Shadowbane Stalker (CAdv). I also want to become a Saint.
Seeker95 11-26-06, 07:17 PM	What is a good build for a Shadowbane Stalker (CAdv). I also want to become a Saint.You're right. This is best left to the CO boards.
risner 11-26-06, 08:12 PM	This simply isnt true. You have no idea how his DM will rule on extra spell. The wording of the feat is too ambiguous for you to tell anyone how their DM will use it. What you say is misleading. The official stance is that Extra Spell works the way I have written. If the OP's DM house rules Extra Spell to have the more liberal reading, more power to him. But it is a house rule, period.
smrtgmp 11-27-06, 03:39 AM	What you say is misleading. The official stance is that Extra Spell works the way I have written. If the OP's DM house rules Extra Spell to have the more liberal reading, more power to him. But it is a house rule, period.What official stance? There is no eratta or FAQ, and customer service has provided a slew of contradicting answers. And how the hell is what I said misleading? I said different DMs rule differently when it comes to extra spell (which is a 100% true statement, and not at all misleading) and that he should check with his DM to see how it works in his game. And thats misleading? Please. :bored:
risner 11-27-06, 05:06 AM	What official stance? There is no eratta or FAQ, and customer service has provided a slew of contradicting answers. There is an official FAQ, and I was 99.9999% you knew about it. So your post has me confounded. Are we talking about Extra Spell feat or not?
Seeker95 11-27-06, 09:37 AM	There is an official FAQ?For sake of argument, and to prevent wading through the 80+ page document that you are speaking of... Could you quote the official FAQ entry for Extra Spell?
risner 11-27-06, 10:36 AM	Could you quote the official FAQ entry for Extra Spell? Can the warmage (Complete Arcane) benefit from the Extra Spell feat? No. Extra Spell lets you add one spell to your list of spells known, but the spell must be taken from your class spell list. Since the warmage already knows all the spells on his class spell list, this feat has no effect. Even if you house rule the feat differently, you still need to house rule another rule: The Player’s Handbook says a wizard can scribe a spell from a spellbook or scroll into her spellbook. Can she scribe a spell from an arcane scroll that isn’t on the wizard’s spell list? No. A wizard’s spellbook is limited to spells from the wizard class spell list.
smrtgmp 11-27-06, 06:26 PM	There is an official FAQ, and I was 99.9999% you knew about it. So your post has me confounded. Are we talking about Extra Spell feat or not?I was unaware of that addition to the FAQ. My apologies for the confusion. :embarrass
Seeker95 11-27-06, 07:08 PM	risner, thank you very much for the efficient and timely reply. :tiphat:
smrtgmp 11-27-06, 08:25 PM	The Player’s Handbook says a wizard can scribe a spell from a spellbook or scroll into her spellbook. Can she scribe a spell from an arcane scroll that isn’t on the wizard’s spell list? No. A wizard’s spellbook is limited to spells from the wizard class spell list.Now this response is clearly in error (well, more accurately its somewhat misleading), as it would make the research of personal spells impossible. There would be no mordenkainen or bigby or melf spells if it were impossible to learn spells from outside the wizard spell list. I wish they would mention things like independant research (at least in passing) when providing an answer to such questions. For instance, a "However, it is possible for wizards to conduct independat research to add a new spell to their spell list" would be a nice cavet.
risner 11-27-06, 11:14 PM	For instance, a "However, it is possible for wizards to conduct independat research to add a new spell to their spell list" would be a nice cavet. I agree with you. I believe Independent research is clear enough that any new spell (approved by the DM) is added to the class spell list of the Wizard in question. I think they either "assumed we knew that" or didn't think to add the caveat about I.R.