Cleric Spontaneous Casting & Maximize [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cleric Spontaneous Casting & Maximize [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dharmlost
04-15-07, 11:13 PM I ran into an argument with a player last night, and I am looking for some clarifications. He wanted to drop a 4th level spell for a spontaneous maximized cure light wounds. I am under the impression that he would have to drop first one 4th level spell slot to cast a equal or lower level cure spell, then another 4th to maximize a 1st level cure light wounds.

Any and all help/information would be much appreciated.
Ozzymandias
04-15-07, 11:23 PM Originally Posted by SRD:

Spontaneous Casting

A good cleric (or a neutral cleric of a good deity) can channel stored spell energy into healing spells that the cleric did not prepare ahead of time. The cleric can "lose" any prepared spell that is not a domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower (a cure spell is any spell with "cure" in its name).

According to these rules, I'd say that a cleric cannot lose a prepared spell to spontaneously cast a cure spell that has been affected by a metamagic feat. That is not to say that it can't be done ever, just that, as I see it, it'd have to be a house rule.

That being said, I would recommend the following:

1) That the character have possession of the feat that is to be used and,

2) that he take extra time in combat (1 full-round action, instead of a standard action, as is the case for most spells); this is comparable with the sorcerer for balance purposes.

I would think that it would be unfair to require the expenditure of an additional spell slot in order to add a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell, as that is ruling that, so far as I know, does not have a precedent in the rules.

Hope this helps your situation.
Nom
04-16-07, 12:25 AM I'm pretty sure this is covered on PH pg 180 (and is legal); I'll check when I get home.

Though I hope this is just an example. A maximized cure light wounds heals 13 points. cure critical wounds (also 4th level) heals a minimum of 11 points with a mean of 25 points at 7th level. What bizarre reasoning inspires your cleric to desire exactly 13 points of healing?
BlakesTiger
04-16-07, 02:08 AM He can, indeed, cast a spontaneous metamagic Cure spell.

Player's Handbook page 88, right side column, middle of the page.

All the rules for spontaneous casting and metamagic (a la Sorcerer) apply.

(Oh, and just incase the rules weren't obviously clear: He does need to have the desired Metamagic Feat to metamagic his spontaneous spells.)
dharmlost
04-16-07, 10:10 AM Thanks everyone! That clears it up :-D I like being proven wrong by facts in the book, not the player getting into a heated argument >_> :D :D
Nom
04-16-07, 06:57 PM The only interesting quirk is the opposite. Can a cleric trade a prepared metamagic spell for non-metamagicked cure spell that requires the same slot? I say "yes" (figuring that slot is what is important here), but have not found an explicit ruling to support or deny this.

PS: In case Blake's post wasn't explicit enough, remember that applying metamagic to any spotaneously cast 1 standard action spell increases the casting time to 1 full round action.
Dheran
04-17-07, 08:39 PM PS: In case Blake's post wasn't explicit enough, remember that applying metamagic to any spotaneously cast 1 standard action spell increases the casting time to 1 full round action. Applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast 1SA spell, yes. A metamagic rod will increase the casting time for a Sorcerer. You'd expect that they'd specify this as applying to all spontaneously cast spells, but that's not the case. The FAQ author made up something on this point:The metamagic rods function the same for any spellcaster—they allow her to apply a metamagic effect “on the fly” when casting the spell to be affected. The exception is the sorcerer (or by extension, any other spontaneous spellcaster) who must still use a full-round action to cast the affected spell.
Nom
04-18-07, 12:44 AM True, the rods don't specify anything for a non-sorcerer. However, they also don't specify that the standard rules are not in force, merely specifying that they are in force for a sorcerer. At that point, you have a reasonable precedent that they are in force for everyone else too.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dharmlost 04-15-07, 11:13 PM	I ran into an argument with a player last night, and I am looking for some clarifications. He wanted to drop a 4th level spell for a spontaneous maximized cure light wounds. I am under the impression that he would have to drop first one 4th level spell slot to cast a equal or lower level cure spell, then another 4th to maximize a 1st level cure light wounds. Any and all help/information would be much appreciated.
Ozzymandias 04-15-07, 11:23 PM	Originally Posted by SRD: Spontaneous Casting A good cleric (or a neutral cleric of a good deity) can channel stored spell energy into healing spells that the cleric did not prepare ahead of time. The cleric can "lose" any prepared spell that is not a domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower (a cure spell is any spell with "cure" in its name). According to these rules, I'd say that a cleric cannot lose a prepared spell to spontaneously cast a cure spell that has been affected by a metamagic feat. That is not to say that it can't be done ever, just that, as I see it, it'd have to be a house rule. That being said, I would recommend the following: 1) That the character have possession of the feat that is to be used and, 2) that he take extra time in combat (1 full-round action, instead of a standard action, as is the case for most spells); this is comparable with the sorcerer for balance purposes. I would think that it would be unfair to require the expenditure of an additional spell slot in order to add a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell, as that is ruling that, so far as I know, does not have a precedent in the rules. Hope this helps your situation.
Nom 04-16-07, 12:25 AM	I'm pretty sure this is covered on PH pg 180 (and is legal); I'll check when I get home. Though I hope this is just an example. A maximized cure light wounds heals 13 points. cure critical wounds (also 4th level) heals a minimum of 11 points with a mean of 25 points at 7th level. What bizarre reasoning inspires your cleric to desire exactly 13 points of healing?
BlakesTiger 04-16-07, 02:08 AM	He can, indeed, cast a spontaneous metamagic Cure spell. Player's Handbook page 88, right side column, middle of the page. All the rules for spontaneous casting and metamagic (a la Sorcerer) apply. (Oh, and just incase the rules weren't obviously clear: He does need to have the desired Metamagic Feat to metamagic his spontaneous spells.)
dharmlost 04-16-07, 10:10 AM	Thanks everyone! That clears it up :-D I like being proven wrong by facts in the book, not the player getting into a heated argument >_> :D :D
Nom 04-16-07, 06:57 PM	The only interesting quirk is the opposite. Can a cleric trade a prepared metamagic spell for non-metamagicked cure spell that requires the same slot? I say "yes" (figuring that slot is what is important here), but have not found an explicit ruling to support or deny this. PS: In case Blake's post wasn't explicit enough, remember that applying metamagic to any spotaneously cast 1 standard action spell increases the casting time to 1 full round action.
Dheran 04-17-07, 08:39 PM	PS: In case Blake's post wasn't explicit enough, remember that applying metamagic to any spotaneously cast 1 standard action spell increases the casting time to 1 full round action. Applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast 1SA spell, yes. A metamagic rod will increase the casting time for a Sorcerer. You'd expect that they'd specify this as applying to all spontaneously cast spells, but that's not the case. The FAQ author made up something on this point:The metamagic rods function the same for any spellcaster—they allow her to apply a metamagic effect “on the fly” when casting the spell to be affected. The exception is the sorcerer (or by extension, any other spontaneous spellcaster) who must still use a full-round action to cast the affected spell.
Nom 04-18-07, 12:44 AM	True, the rods don't specify anything for a non-sorcerer. However, they also don't specify that the standard rules are not in force, merely specifying that they are in force for a sorcerer. At that point, you have a reasonable precedent that they are in force for everyone else too.