Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Muyte 10-14-05, 02:26 PM	Hi all, Can a symbol be moved after it is cast? Or can it be cast on a mobile object? We use 3.5 core rule book players handbook. Thanks
Dag 10-14-05, 03:18 PM	I personally don't think a symbol can be moved about. This would constitute enabling it to be used offensively, and the spell description states "You can't use a symbol...offensively." Also there is the fact that it is a magical trap and can be detected by rogues and disarmed. No spells (In the player's handbook anyways) that are considered magical traps can be used offensively or made to work offensively (unless through trickery, like perhaps an explosive rune on an opposing wizard's scroll); still, the text in the Player's handbook is not clear on this point, stating that the spell "Allows you to scribe a potent rune of power on a surface." That doesn't make it very clear whether that surface can be a shield, a banner, a piece of paper or a stone wall. From what I read there is no hard and fast way to rule this, seems a descision for DMs to make and I would be opposed to allowing a portable and movable symbol unless some avenue of reasoning could show why it should be allowed.
Kaboth 10-14-05, 03:29 PM	A long time ago we faced (this was 2E mind you) a couple of opponents that had Symbols on their shields. One had Symbol of Death and the other had Symbol of Pain and I beleive that was written in an actual module. They had the shields covered with a fur cover and pulled them off when we were in front of them. Just a little history there....
Phrennzy 10-14-05, 04:30 PM	I don't see anything in the spell description that says you cannot move whatever it is scribed on. As the other poster said, you could put it on a shield. You could put it on a note, and fold it into an airplane, and huck it at the bad guys, and see if they open it. (God, that's stupid :))
tarkin 10-14-05, 04:56 PM	Actually, if you go by straight rules, no, you can't move them in 3.5 Symbols have a range of 0 ft, and an effect that extends upto 60 ft from that range. (See Symbol of Death). A spell’s range indicates how far from you it can reach, as defined in the Range entry of the spell description. A spell’s range is the maximum distance from you that the spell’s effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell’s point of origin. If any portion of the spell’s area would extend beyond this range, that area is wasted Normally this means that if you cast a Fireball targetted at maximum range for you, you get a hemisphere of fire, as the fire can not extend out of the range. This was confirmed by the Sage, and I believe a FAQ entry, although I have not checked. But as Symbol spells have a range of 0 ft, once you cast them, they can not move or they cease to function. So in a strict or Loose game, no you can't move them. I could easily see a Power Game or Anything Goes Game rule that they can be moved, but not in a strict or loose game. Also note, like all "unmoveable" spell effects, this causes problems if on a ship. Expect a Loose DM to rule that things move with the ship, while a Strict one might just have the symbol stay put relative to the planet, so you leave it behind.
Kaboth 10-14-05, 05:00 PM	But if you had cast them on the shield, techincally they are not moving from the shield they are still remaining there. By your logic if someone TK'ed the object that the spell was on from a range greater than 60 feet soon as the object moved the spell would cancel....
mvincent 10-14-05, 05:28 PM	Actually, if you go by straight rules, no, you can't move them in 3.5 Symbols have a range of 0 ft, and an effect that extends upto 60 ft from that range. (See Symbol of Death).I'm not sure I follow. Other spells also have a range of 0 ft while still being mobile, like: Ironwood, Minor Creation, Phantom Steed, Produce Flame, Flame Blade, Summon Instrument, etc. Also, here is a sample scenario (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031215a) from the WoTC site that uses mobile symbols. Also, what happens if the symbol is placed on or inside something that moves, like a bench, coach, ship, cloud city, moon, planet, solar system, etc.?
Acheron 10-14-05, 05:37 PM	Also, what happens if the symbol is placed on or inside something that moves, like a bench, coach, ship, cloud city, moon, planet, solar system, etc.? Solar System?!? :eek:
Phrennzy 10-14-05, 05:41 PM	Actually, if you go by straight rules, no, you can't move them in 3.5 Symbols have a range of 0 ft, and an effect that extends upto 60 ft from that range. (See Symbol of Death). It's rare that I disagree with Tarkin, and I am always hesitant to do so - But I read the Range = 0 that you have to be scribing on the item. Once the spell is cast, it can be moved - similar to Arcane Mark. Arcane Mark gives an example of it being used on a living creature, and what happens - surely you don't think that Arcane Mark can't move?
mvincent 10-14-05, 05:54 PM	Solar System?!? :eek:"The Sun (http://www.astro.uu.nl/~strous/AA/en/antwoorden/beweging.html) and the Solar System move with respect to the nearby stars at a speed of 20 km/s (72,000 km/h)."