Cleric/Wizard Multi [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cleric/Wizard Multi [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rex_subterrae1008
05-16-07, 03:19 PM I've been trying out various multiclass mages lately, and I was just wondering about necromancy spells... I have a CN cleric of Boccob, N God of Magic, who I plan on multiclassing as a Wizard... If I choose to have him turn undead (as a good cleric), does that keep him from learning necromancy spells as a Wizard, or not?
Thiez
05-16-07, 03:24 PM Necromancy as a school has nothing to do with turning or rebuking undead.

Edit: I wonder though, what made you think this could be a problem?
rex_subterrae1008
05-16-07, 03:27 PM Well, I just figured that since a lot of necro spells are considered evil, that there might be trouble with a cleric using them... I just like to make sure of these things before actually using them... lol.
Thiez
05-16-07, 03:33 PM Even the most [Good] clerics can cast the Inflict spells from the Necromancy school. The Disrupt Undead wizard spell does exactly what the name says it does. Undeath to Death destroys undead. It is necromancy. Mark of Justice, another Necromancy spell, is on the PALADIN spell list.

Your turn/rebuke choice as a cleric does not affect the spells you can learn and/or cast as a wizard (nor does it affect the spells you can learn and/or cast as a cleric).

Necromancy is NOT evil.
rex_subterrae1008
05-16-07, 03:39 PM Ok, thanks for the clarification...
Seeker95
05-16-07, 03:59 PM Nope. Nothing in your description implies that the word "necromancy" should be a concern. Unless you become a specialist wizard that chooses necromancy as a prohibited school, that is.

As for Necromancy and Evil, these are the [evil] necromancy spells.Absorb Strength (F)
Animate Dead (M)
Animate Dead Familiar (XP)
Animate Dread Warrior (XP)
Animate Legion (M)
Avascular Mass
Avasculate
Awaken Undead (XP)
Barghest's Feast (M)
Black Sand
Blackfire
Blackwater Taint
Bodak's Glare (F)
Boneblade
Boneblast
Charnel Fire
Clutch of Orcus
Consume Likeness (F)
Consumptive Field
Greater Consumptive Field
Contagion
Mass Contagion
Create Greater Undead (M)
Create Undead (M)
Curse Water (M)
Dance of Ruin
Dark Tide
Death Dragon
Death Grimace
Death Knell
Death Pact (M)
Deathwatch
Ectoplasmic Enhancement
Energy Ebb
Eternity of Torture
Evil Glare
Eyebite
Field of Ghouls
General of Undeath
Ghoul Gauntlet
Grim Revenge
Gutwrench
Imprison Soul (M) (F)
Incorporeal Enhancement
Kiss of the Vampire (M)
Necrotic Bloat (F)
Necrotic Burst (F)
Necrotic Cyst (F)
Necrotic Domination (F)
Necrotic Empowerment (F)
Necrotic Eruption (F)
Necrotic Scrying (F)
Necrotic Termination (F) (XP)
Necrotic Tumor (F)
Night's Caress
Pestilence
Plague of Undead (M)
Power Leech
Pox
Ravage
Red Fester
Rejuvenative Corpse
Revive Undead (M)
Shriveling
Skeletal Guard (M)
Slow Consumption
Soul Charge (F)
Soul Shackles
Steal Life
Sword of Darkness (M)
Symbol of Pain (M)
Touch of the Pharaoh
Undead Mask
Undeath after Death (M)
Unliving Weapon
Veil of Undeath (M)
Wave of Pain
Wither Limb
Wrack
79 out of 291 Necromancy spells.
rex_subterrae1008
05-16-07, 04:04 PM I want to be able to cast as many spells as possible, so I'm not specializing at all... So I'm not worried about prohibited schools due to that...

EDIT: I didn't see your list of Evil Necro spells until after I posted this... Could a G cleric actually cast any of the spells in that list, or not? Sorry if my questions sound stupid... lol
Thiez
05-16-07, 04:09 PM If your cleric becomes true neutral you can also have him cast [Law] spells as a cleric. Again, your alignment as a cleric does not affect the spells you can cast as a wizard, and boccob, being TN, doesn't care either way.
Salla
05-16-07, 06:02 PM I want to be able to cast as many spells as possible, so I'm not specializing at all... So I'm not worried about prohibited schools due to that...

EDIT: I didn't see your list of Evil Necro spells until after I posted this... Could a G cleric actually cast any of the spells in that list, or not? Sorry if my questions sound stupid... lol

In a standard game, no, a Good cleric cannot cast spells with the Evil descriptor. This may vary by campaign setting.
Thiez
05-16-07, 06:06 PM In a standard game, no, a Good cleric cannot cast spells with the Evil descriptor. This may vary by campaign setting.

Irony: On page 291 of the PHB, there is a picture of Jozan, the cleric of Pelor, casting a Symbol of Pain [Evil].
SephDragoon
05-16-07, 06:07 PM Why going wizard anyways? Just curious... I would think that Sorcerer would do better since sorc is charisma based, which helps turn/rebuke undead...
Thiez
05-16-07, 06:11 PM Why going wizard anyways? Just curious... I would think that Sorcerer would do better since sorc is charisma based, which helps turn/rebuke undead...

Turn/Rebuke become quite useless at higher levels, when everything has turn resistance and lots and lots of HD. Unless you use Divine Metamagicks.

Try to get two fast casting progressions and the Mystic Theurge class :P
SephDragoon
05-16-07, 06:13 PM Turn/Rebuke become quite useless at higher levels, when everything has turn resistance and lots and lots of HD. Unless you use Divine Metamagicks.

Try to get two fast casting progressions and the Mystic Theurge class :P

Our true necromancer actually used his charisma more than wisdom... he could rebuke nearly anything...including a lich that almost shat its pants when it realized it could be rebuked because our necromancer was just that strong.

All his buffing and summoning (non-save) spells were cleric, and all damaging and save or dies were sorcerer. He ended up doing very well.
Thiez
05-16-07, 06:15 PM Whatever :p

If you multiclass into sorcerer or wizard, no amount of charisma is going to save your turning :)
Chimaera2000
05-16-07, 06:15 PM Irony: On page 291 of the PHB, there is a picture of Jozan, the cleric of Pelor, casting a Symbol of Pain [Evil].

(chuckles) I never noticed that before. Wow.

Try to get two fast casting progressions and the Mystic Theurge class :P

Even one will do the job. A Cleric 1/Wizard 4/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Wizard +5 gets you 9th-level cleric and wizard spells. With two Practiced Spellcaster feats, you also get CL 20 with your Wizard spells and CL 24 for your Ur-Priest spells (perfect for blasphemy and the like!).

I'm also a big fan of combined Sublime Chord with Fochlucan Lyrist. I've had my eye on a changeling Bard 4/Cloistered Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 3/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9 (with the Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots) and Open Least Chakra feats to take care of the Evasion prerequisite) for some time now.
Thiez
05-16-07, 06:46 PM I'm also a big fan of combined Sublime Chord with Fochlucan Lyrist. I've had my eye on a changeling Bard 4/Cloistered Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 3/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9 (with the Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots) and Open Least Chakra feats to take care of the Evasion prerequisite) for some time now.

There is not a day that goes by without teaching me something I never wanted to know about DnD. CharOPs is truely a thing of beauty. Too bad it smells like cheese :(
Seeker95
05-16-07, 07:20 PM Irony: On page 291 of the PHB, there is a picture of Jozan, the cleric of Pelor, casting a Symbol of Pain [Evil].That is a doppelganger cleric of Nerull mimicking Jozan in an effort to besmirch his good name. He paid the paparazzi photographer to take that picture and bribed a low-level WotC editor to sneak it past the proofers.
Witch
05-16-07, 07:22 PM That is a doppelganger cleric of Nerull mimicking Jozan in an effort to besmirch his good name. He paid the paparazzi photographer to take that picture and bribed a low-level WotC editor to sneak it past the proofers.
No, it's because Jozan's patron, Pelor, is a vile god of Evil. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=846926)
Grogmir
05-17-07, 07:02 AM should be more like "the Mystic Theurge class" :yuck:
Ieniemienie
05-17-07, 08:21 AM No, it's because Jozan's patron, Pelor, is a vile god of Evil. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=846926)
this article rocks!

> And he will rain down flames of Doom!!!
rex_subterrae1008
05-17-07, 10:20 AM Our true necromancer actually used his charisma more than wisdom... he could rebuke nearly anything...including a lich that almost shat its pants when it realized it could be rebuked because our necromancer was just that strong.

All his buffing and summoning (non-save) spells were cleric, and all damaging and save or dies were sorcerer. He ended up doing very well.

Actually, I'm not concerned with turning undead, as much as getting more spells... My Cleic, who is a halfling, by the way, has the following stats after racial adjustment: 10 Str, 14 Dex, 11 Con, 17 Wis, 17 Int, 12 Cha... I want him to be able to know as many spells as possible... He's currently CN, but I might change that to just N, based on what Thiez said... Oh, and for those of you wondering, I haven't had a chance to actually use him in a game...
Ieniemienie
05-17-07, 10:34 AM are you now requesting items to use?

if so, what lvl are you and how muc h gold do you have to spend?
rex_subterrae1008
05-17-07, 11:13 AM are you now requesting items to use?

if so, what lvl are you and how muc h gold do you have to spend?

No, I'm not requesting items to use... I was only wondering about necromancy spells... I haven't had a chance to use my cleric yet, so he's still only Lvl 1...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rex_subterrae1008 05-16-07, 03:19 PM	I've been trying out various multiclass mages lately, and I was just wondering about necromancy spells... I have a CN cleric of Boccob, N God of Magic, who I plan on multiclassing as a Wizard... If I choose to have him turn undead (as a good cleric), does that keep him from learning necromancy spells as a Wizard, or not?
Thiez 05-16-07, 03:24 PM	Necromancy as a school has nothing to do with turning or rebuking undead. Edit: I wonder though, what made you think this could be a problem?
rex_subterrae1008 05-16-07, 03:27 PM	Well, I just figured that since a lot of necro spells are considered evil, that there might be trouble with a cleric using them... I just like to make sure of these things before actually using them... lol.
Thiez 05-16-07, 03:33 PM	Even the most [Good] clerics can cast the Inflict spells from the Necromancy school. The Disrupt Undead wizard spell does exactly what the name says it does. Undeath to Death destroys undead. It is necromancy. Mark of Justice, another Necromancy spell, is on the PALADIN spell list. Your turn/rebuke choice as a cleric does not affect the spells you can learn and/or cast as a wizard (nor does it affect the spells you can learn and/or cast as a cleric). Necromancy is NOT evil.
rex_subterrae1008 05-16-07, 03:39 PM	Ok, thanks for the clarification...
Seeker95 05-16-07, 03:59 PM	Nope. Nothing in your description implies that the word "necromancy" should be a concern. Unless you become a specialist wizard that chooses necromancy as a prohibited school, that is. As for Necromancy and Evil, these are the [evil] necromancy spells.Absorb Strength (F) Animate Dead (M) Animate Dead Familiar (XP) Animate Dread Warrior (XP) Animate Legion (M) Avascular Mass Avasculate Awaken Undead (XP) Barghest's Feast (M) Black Sand Blackfire Blackwater Taint Bodak's Glare (F) Boneblade Boneblast Charnel Fire Clutch of Orcus Consume Likeness (F) Consumptive Field Greater Consumptive Field Contagion Mass Contagion Create Greater Undead (M) Create Undead (M) Curse Water (M) Dance of Ruin Dark Tide Death Dragon Death Grimace Death Knell Death Pact (M) Deathwatch Ectoplasmic Enhancement Energy Ebb Eternity of Torture Evil Glare Eyebite Field of Ghouls General of Undeath Ghoul Gauntlet Grim Revenge Gutwrench Imprison Soul (M) (F) Incorporeal Enhancement Kiss of the Vampire (M) Necrotic Bloat (F) Necrotic Burst (F) Necrotic Cyst (F) Necrotic Domination (F) Necrotic Empowerment (F) Necrotic Eruption (F) Necrotic Scrying (F) Necrotic Termination (F) (XP) Necrotic Tumor (F) Night's Caress Pestilence Plague of Undead (M) Power Leech Pox Ravage Red Fester Rejuvenative Corpse Revive Undead (M) Shriveling Skeletal Guard (M) Slow Consumption Soul Charge (F) Soul Shackles Steal Life Sword of Darkness (M) Symbol of Pain (M) Touch of the Pharaoh Undead Mask Undeath after Death (M) Unliving Weapon Veil of Undeath (M) Wave of Pain Wither Limb Wrack 79 out of 291 Necromancy spells.
rex_subterrae1008 05-16-07, 04:04 PM	I want to be able to cast as many spells as possible, so I'm not specializing at all... So I'm not worried about prohibited schools due to that... EDIT: I didn't see your list of Evil Necro spells until after I posted this... Could a G cleric actually cast any of the spells in that list, or not? Sorry if my questions sound stupid... lol
Thiez 05-16-07, 04:09 PM	If your cleric becomes true neutral you can also have him cast [Law] spells as a cleric. Again, your alignment as a cleric does not affect the spells you can cast as a wizard, and boccob, being TN, doesn't care either way.
Salla 05-16-07, 06:02 PM	I want to be able to cast as many spells as possible, so I'm not specializing at all... So I'm not worried about prohibited schools due to that... EDIT: I didn't see your list of Evil Necro spells until after I posted this... Could a G cleric actually cast any of the spells in that list, or not? Sorry if my questions sound stupid... lol In a standard game, no, a Good cleric cannot cast spells with the Evil descriptor. This may vary by campaign setting.
Thiez 05-16-07, 06:06 PM	In a standard game, no, a Good cleric cannot cast spells with the Evil descriptor. This may vary by campaign setting. Irony: On page 291 of the PHB, there is a picture of Jozan, the cleric of Pelor, casting a Symbol of Pain [Evil].
SephDragoon 05-16-07, 06:07 PM	Why going wizard anyways? Just curious... I would think that Sorcerer would do better since sorc is charisma based, which helps turn/rebuke undead...
Thiez 05-16-07, 06:11 PM	Why going wizard anyways? Just curious... I would think that Sorcerer would do better since sorc is charisma based, which helps turn/rebuke undead... Turn/Rebuke become quite useless at higher levels, when everything has turn resistance and lots and lots of HD. Unless you use Divine Metamagicks. Try to get two fast casting progressions and the Mystic Theurge class :P
SephDragoon 05-16-07, 06:13 PM	Turn/Rebuke become quite useless at higher levels, when everything has turn resistance and lots and lots of HD. Unless you use Divine Metamagicks. Try to get two fast casting progressions and the Mystic Theurge class :P Our true necromancer actually used his charisma more than wisdom... he could rebuke nearly anything...including a lich that almost shat its pants when it realized it could be rebuked because our necromancer was just that strong. All his buffing and summoning (non-save) spells were cleric, and all damaging and save or dies were sorcerer. He ended up doing very well.
Thiez 05-16-07, 06:15 PM	Whatever :p If you multiclass into sorcerer or wizard, no amount of charisma is going to save your turning :)
Chimaera2000 05-16-07, 06:15 PM	Irony: On page 291 of the PHB, there is a picture of Jozan, the cleric of Pelor, casting a Symbol of Pain [Evil]. (chuckles) I never noticed that before. Wow. Try to get two fast casting progressions and the Mystic Theurge class :P Even one will do the job. A Cleric 1/Wizard 4/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Wizard +5 gets you 9th-level cleric and wizard spells. With two Practiced Spellcaster feats, you also get CL 20 with your Wizard spells and CL 24 for your Ur-Priest spells (perfect for blasphemy and the like!). I'm also a big fan of combined Sublime Chord with Fochlucan Lyrist. I've had my eye on a changeling Bard 4/Cloistered Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 3/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9 (with the Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots) and Open Least Chakra feats to take care of the Evasion prerequisite) for some time now.
Thiez 05-16-07, 06:46 PM	I'm also a big fan of combined Sublime Chord with Fochlucan Lyrist. I've had my eye on a changeling Bard 4/Cloistered Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 3/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9 (with the Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots) and Open Least Chakra feats to take care of the Evasion prerequisite) for some time now. There is not a day that goes by without teaching me something I never wanted to know about DnD. CharOPs is truely a thing of beauty. Too bad it smells like cheese :(
Seeker95 05-16-07, 07:20 PM	Irony: On page 291 of the PHB, there is a picture of Jozan, the cleric of Pelor, casting a Symbol of Pain [Evil].That is a doppelganger cleric of Nerull mimicking Jozan in an effort to besmirch his good name. He paid the paparazzi photographer to take that picture and bribed a low-level WotC editor to sneak it past the proofers.
Witch 05-16-07, 07:22 PM	That is a doppelganger cleric of Nerull mimicking Jozan in an effort to besmirch his good name. He paid the paparazzi photographer to take that picture and bribed a low-level WotC editor to sneak it past the proofers. No, it's because Jozan's patron, Pelor, is a vile god of Evil. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=846926)
Grogmir 05-17-07, 07:02 AM	should be more like "the Mystic Theurge class" :yuck:
Ieniemienie 05-17-07, 08:21 AM	No, it's because Jozan's patron, Pelor, is a vile god of Evil. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=846926) this article rocks! > And he will rain down flames of Doom!!!
rex_subterrae1008 05-17-07, 10:20 AM	Our true necromancer actually used his charisma more than wisdom... he could rebuke nearly anything...including a lich that almost shat its pants when it realized it could be rebuked because our necromancer was just that strong. All his buffing and summoning (non-save) spells were cleric, and all damaging and save or dies were sorcerer. He ended up doing very well. Actually, I'm not concerned with turning undead, as much as getting more spells... My Cleic, who is a halfling, by the way, has the following stats after racial adjustment: 10 Str, 14 Dex, 11 Con, 17 Wis, 17 Int, 12 Cha... I want him to be able to know as many spells as possible... He's currently CN, but I might change that to just N, based on what Thiez said... Oh, and for those of you wondering, I haven't had a chance to actually use him in a game...
Ieniemienie 05-17-07, 10:34 AM	are you now requesting items to use? if so, what lvl are you and how muc h gold do you have to spend?
rex_subterrae1008 05-17-07, 11:13 AM	are you now requesting items to use? if so, what lvl are you and how muc h gold do you have to spend? No, I'm not requesting items to use... I was only wondering about necromancy spells... I haven't had a chance to use my cleric yet, so he's still only Lvl 1...