Clerics and Shields and Spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Clerics and Shields and Spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
slaughterj
03-15-07, 04:01 PM The prototypical image and build for clerics is a mace and a large shield. However, in a current group, they say that a cleric can't cast its spells when wielding a mace and a shield. What is the basis for this restriction (need hand free for handling focus, component, or to touch in case of healing spell?) and where is it located/described? It seems this is based on many (most? all?) spells having a somatic component, but that seems to go in the face of the stereotypical image?!
JayceMD
03-15-07, 04:03 PM Check out the FAQ: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a

It answers this question in detail; covering every type of shield.
tarkin
03-15-07, 04:23 PM Basically, you can shift your weapon as a free action to a hand that has certain types of shields, then back again as a free action later.

Alsoe, note that your Holy Symbol does not have to take up a hand - it just must be presented. You can wear it around your neck (Cross necklace) or simply paint it on your armor/shield. The penalty is that people know who your god is, and can therefore make rather accurate guesses about what your actions will be.

Hm thinks the Vampire. Perhaps I should not admit to that party with a cleric of lathander that I am a vampire. But that one who worships Thanatos, I might be able to hire.
Tonus
03-15-07, 04:33 PM Most spells, even clerical spells, have a somatic component, which requires having a hand free to cast.

If you are a mace and heavy shield cleric, you will typically want to do your casting before drawing you weapon and wading into melee. Having a backup weapon or two is a good idea so in an emergency you can drop your weapon (as a free action) and (for example) stabilize your fallen comrade. The next round you can draw your backup weapon and continue fighting, without incurring the attack of opportunity that would result from picking your weapon back up from the ground.

If you don't like the idea of dropping a weapon to cast, you have a few options. You could take Still Spell as a feat. You could use a buckler instead of a large shield. Or you could lose the shield entirely and wield a two-handed weapon. (You can hang on to a two-handed weapon with one hand while you cast with the other, just can't attack with it. But you can't attack on a round you're casting anyway.)

Personally, I like the idea of a cleric using a longspear. You can take a position just behind the party tank and attack whatever he's fighting with your reach weapon, and be right in position for your healing touch if that's needed.
DarkRhystar
03-15-07, 07:36 PM but that seems to go in the face of the stereotypical image?!

Deal with it... or take the Somatic Weaponry feat (Complete Mage, pg 47) which lets you cast spells with somatic components with your hands full.
slaughterj
03-16-07, 01:42 PM Deal with it

Why should I? Maybe the artists should more accurately represent the character builds which better fit the rules instead.
slaughterj
03-16-07, 01:54 PM Basically, you can shift your weapon as a free action to a hand that has certain types of shields, then back again as a free action later.

FYI, I don't see anything in the rules on that, and further, in the FAQ, it suggests switching the weapon to the shield hand but notes no time is designated for that, so it speculates such would be a move action like drawing a weapon, i.e., not a free action.
Dunamin
03-16-07, 03:37 PM You could use a buckler instead of a large shield.
Or a light shield.

FYI, I don't see anything in the rules on that, and further, in the FAQ, it suggests switching the weapon to the shield hand but notes no time is designated for that, so it speculates such would be a move action like drawing a weapon, i.e., not a free action.
That is indeed what the FAQ says. I let it be a free action.
Inigo Carmine
03-16-07, 04:22 PM Why should I? Maybe the artists should more accurately represent the character builds which better fit the rules instead.

There's nothing wrong with the images. A cleric can effectively fight with a weapon and shield (in fact, after a self-buff they usually fight better than a fighter).

There are also multiple pictures of the cleric doing things without having both a weapon and shield out. Off the top of my head:

1) Using a staff to cast ressurection on someone.
2) Using some [good] spell against a Succubus (forget the exact spell).
3) turning undead and presenting his holy symbol.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
slaughterj 03-15-07, 04:01 PM	The prototypical image and build for clerics is a mace and a large shield. However, in a current group, they say that a cleric can't cast its spells when wielding a mace and a shield. What is the basis for this restriction (need hand free for handling focus, component, or to touch in case of healing spell?) and where is it located/described? It seems this is based on many (most? all?) spells having a somatic component, but that seems to go in the face of the stereotypical image?!
JayceMD 03-15-07, 04:03 PM	Check out the FAQ: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a It answers this question in detail; covering every type of shield.
tarkin 03-15-07, 04:23 PM	Basically, you can shift your weapon as a free action to a hand that has certain types of shields, then back again as a free action later. Alsoe, note that your Holy Symbol does not have to take up a hand - it just must be presented. You can wear it around your neck (Cross necklace) or simply paint it on your armor/shield. The penalty is that people know who your god is, and can therefore make rather accurate guesses about what your actions will be. Hm thinks the Vampire. Perhaps I should not admit to that party with a cleric of lathander that I am a vampire. But that one who worships Thanatos, I might be able to hire.
Tonus 03-15-07, 04:33 PM	Most spells, even clerical spells, have a somatic component, which requires having a hand free to cast. If you are a mace and heavy shield cleric, you will typically want to do your casting before drawing you weapon and wading into melee. Having a backup weapon or two is a good idea so in an emergency you can drop your weapon (as a free action) and (for example) stabilize your fallen comrade. The next round you can draw your backup weapon and continue fighting, without incurring the attack of opportunity that would result from picking your weapon back up from the ground. If you don't like the idea of dropping a weapon to cast, you have a few options. You could take Still Spell as a feat. You could use a buckler instead of a large shield. Or you could lose the shield entirely and wield a two-handed weapon. (You can hang on to a two-handed weapon with one hand while you cast with the other, just can't attack with it. But you can't attack on a round you're casting anyway.) Personally, I like the idea of a cleric using a longspear. You can take a position just behind the party tank and attack whatever he's fighting with your reach weapon, and be right in position for your healing touch if that's needed.
DarkRhystar 03-15-07, 07:36 PM	but that seems to go in the face of the stereotypical image?! Deal with it... or take the Somatic Weaponry feat (Complete Mage, pg 47) which lets you cast spells with somatic components with your hands full.
slaughterj 03-16-07, 01:42 PM	Deal with it Why should I? Maybe the artists should more accurately represent the character builds which better fit the rules instead.
slaughterj 03-16-07, 01:54 PM	Basically, you can shift your weapon as a free action to a hand that has certain types of shields, then back again as a free action later. FYI, I don't see anything in the rules on that, and further, in the FAQ, it suggests switching the weapon to the shield hand but notes no time is designated for that, so it speculates such would be a move action like drawing a weapon, i.e., not a free action.
Dunamin 03-16-07, 03:37 PM	You could use a buckler instead of a large shield. Or a light shield. FYI, I don't see anything in the rules on that, and further, in the FAQ, it suggests switching the weapon to the shield hand but notes no time is designated for that, so it speculates such would be a move action like drawing a weapon, i.e., not a free action. That is indeed what the FAQ says. I let it be a free action.
Inigo Carmine 03-16-07, 04:22 PM	Why should I? Maybe the artists should more accurately represent the character builds which better fit the rules instead. There's nothing wrong with the images. A cleric can effectively fight with a weapon and shield (in fact, after a self-buff they usually fight better than a fighter). There are also multiple pictures of the cleric doing things without having both a weapon and shield out. Off the top of my head: 1) Using a staff to cast ressurection on someone. 2) Using some [good] spell against a Succubus (forget the exact spell). 3) turning undead and presenting his holy symbol.