Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chthonic 04-16-05, 04:03 AM	Appologies if this has been asked before but I could do with some opinions on this... The Sittuation A wizard takes a sample of his own flesh and, using Clone, grows a duplicate body in his lab. 2d4 months later, he's got a lifeless clone of himself which his soul can inhabit if he dies. To stop the clone decaying, he casts Gentle Repose on it at regular intervals. The whole purpose of this is to make sure that he always has a backup body which his soul will immediately inhabit should he get killed. The Questions (1) Does this violate anything in the RAW? I can't find anything to prohibit it but I don't have every sourcebook and I may have missed something. (2) Can the Wizard use the Graft Flesh feat to modify the clone body? I'm guessing no because it's not alive but it will be eventually, so does that change things? (3) What other forms of preservation can you suggest? I want to avoid anything invasive like formaldehyde, so I'm after something magical. Any other thoughts would be appreciated.
Pippa 04-16-05, 04:48 AM	Although I haven't got a clue where the spells come from, it looks too simple to be true, isn't it? I see only this problem: are you sure the man's soul will enter the new body as soon as the old one comes to die? I always thought that when someone died, his soul fled away into another plane, and had to be brought back by sombody else if he ever wanted to walk the material plane again. Would be kind of a cool concept, though. Especially if your wizard is the villain you can't get rid of since he 's got spare bodies stashed all over the land.
runestar 04-16-05, 05:21 AM	I think that's the way its intended to work. If you are frustrated about having to continuously preserve it, perhaps you can forge a ring of gentle repose of something and give it to the corpse to wear to arrest its decay. I think there's also a 9th lv spell called stasis clones that lets you create clones that will not decay. Think Manshoon and the clone wars......
PhaedrusXY 04-16-05, 12:35 PM	Although I haven't got a clue where the spells come fromThey're in the Player's Handbook... I think that's the way its intended to work. If you are frustrated about having to continuously preserve it, perhaps you can forge a ring of gentle repose of something and give it to the corpse to wear to arrest its decay. I think there's also a 9th lv spell called stasis clones that lets you create clones that will not decay.The solution I like is making a Spellstitched (Monster Manual 2) undead, and giving it the ability to cast Gentle Repose once per day. Then seal it in a tomb with your clone and instruct it to keep the clone fresh for you, and kill anyone who enters the tomb (besides you :P ).
ronyon 04-16-05, 07:30 PM	Oil of Timelessness? cant find the reference,but I read it somewhere in Here... (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-MagicItems.pdf)
Purkake 04-16-05, 09:09 PM	Temporal stasis might be a bit more useful.
Wyrd Bearer 04-16-05, 10:31 PM	See, the problem I see with that is, you die and your soul enters the clone body, which is stuck in temporal stasis....
Mithridates 04-16-05, 10:37 PM	Oil of Timelessness really is the best solution. It's doesn't affect living things, so once your soul reverts to the clone there won't be any side effects. Unless you plan on keeping the body around for many, many years, there won't be problem with decay. Oil of Timelessness is also probably much cheaper than a spellstiched or a ring of gentle repose.
Chthonic 04-16-05, 11:41 PM	Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I'll go with the Unguent of Timelessness (which I'd totally forgotten about) because it never wears off and only costs 150GP.
ronyon 04-17-05, 08:56 AM	Ungent! Not Oil? No wonder I couldnt find it...
Iver Gearsham 04-17-05, 02:12 PM	Check out Complet Arcane there is an Item called a Thought Bottle costs 20,000 gp spend 500 exp and you can make the Clone spell effectivly a True Res. Just breath in from the Bottle and get back your levels.
SALDAR 04-17-05, 11:41 PM	The Unguent of Timelessness will not work. The first line states that it must be applied to matter that was "once alive". A clone is an inert body and has never been “alive”. The material component (piece of flesh) used was once alive but the clone (body) created has never been alive. In the Stronghold Builder’s Guidebook there is a magic item called a Morgue of Preservation (see Pantry of Preservation, pg. 80). It is a room (4000 cubic feet, 20x20x10) that contains a permanent Gentle Repose spell at a cost of 3000gp (checked 3.5 magic item creation formulas, no change in price).
Chthonic 04-18-05, 03:56 AM	The Unguent of Timelessness will not work. The first line states that it must be applied to matter that was "once alive". A clone is an inert body and has never been “alive”. The material component (piece of flesh) used was once alive but the clone (body) created has never been alive. In the Stronghold Builder’s Guidebook there is a magic item called a Morgue of Preservation (see Pantry of Preservation, pg. 80). It is a room (4000 cubic feet, 20x20x10) that contains a permanent Gentle Repose spell at a cost of 3000gp (checked 3.5 magic item creation formulas, no change in price). Thanks for the correction. The Morgue of Preservation will be absolutely perfect for this. I was going to use this idea with a BBEG Necromancer and this morgue will let her keep her 'raw materials' fresh as an added bonus.
Mithridates 04-18-05, 04:12 AM	The Unguent of Timelessness will not work. The first line states that it must be applied to matter that was "once alive". A clone is an inert body and has never been “alive”. The material component (piece of flesh) used was once alive but the clone (body) created has never been alive. I think it could be easily argued that, since the clone was grown from that sample, it is entirely once alive. The spell is necromancy, not conjuration; where else would the flesh come from if not the original sample?