Clothes that have armor special abilities?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Clothes that have armor special abilities?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dwarfinamug
07-28-04, 02:50 PM Clothes are nothing bur an armor with an armor bonus of 0, right?

Could one make for example a shirt +3 of spell resistance?
Derren S.
07-28-04, 02:56 PM No.
Clothes are clothes and not armor and you can't enchant them with the armor rules.

If clothes were armor, monks must run arround naked.
lekpic
07-28-04, 03:06 PM But you could, however make glammored armor that looks like clothes.
BlackSmith
07-28-04, 03:12 PM Originally posted by dwarfinamug
Could one make for example a shirt +3 of spell resistance? sure you can.

+3 armor bouns and spell resistance 13 is equal to +5 MPM = 5² * 1000 = 25 000
but as your shirt is in the wrong body slot it resives +50% price penalty as slot affinity rules thus:
25kgp * 1,5 = 37,5 kgp.

you could also price it by +3 armor bonus and 13 spell resistance that is not added to armor (just read)
13 SR is 10kgp.

3 armor bonus is equal to 3 MPM thus 3² * 1000 = 9kgp
but as it is compleatly different power than the first it costs double = 18kgp

now add them up.
28kgp.

and as you cant realy say neither a Physical Improvement it gets +50% body affinity price penalty thus pumping the price to 42kgp.

so depending witch way you want it done, it costs either 37,5 kgp or 42 kgp.
if you are adding more armor abilites later, then the 42kgp version is better but cheap it will never be.

.

dwarfinamug
you better have a look in here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=282022)

Originally posted by lekpic
But you could, however make glammored armor that looks like clothes. yes as per
SRD: MAgicItemsII: Magic Armor and Shield Special Ability Descriptions
Glamered: A suit of armor with this ability appears normal. Upon command, the armor changes shape and form to assume the appearance of a normal set of clothing. The armor retains all its properties (including weight) when glamered. Only a true seeing spell or similar magic reveals the true nature of the armor when disguised.
Sancus
07-28-04, 03:16 PM Sure you can. See Robe of the Archmagi. If you use the Arms and Equipment Guide rules you can enchant bracers as armor as well.
MetalGemini
07-28-04, 03:22 PM ya, if you can enchant a cloak or pair of boots or gloves (which aren't armor at all), I don't see why you can't enchant a shirt or pair of trousers.
Sensei Gith
07-28-04, 03:46 PM By the core rules, armor, and only armor, can have armor special abilities. Shields are for all intents and purposes (enhancement bonuses, monk abilities, etc.) a type of armor.

The robe of the archmagi is a unique item that functions like bracers of armor. They provide an armor bonus but are not armor and are not eligible for special abilities like fortification.

If it's okay to have bracers of armor, is there any problem with a shirt of armor? Probably not. But it would be a wondrous item, cap at +8 like bracers, and be ineligible for armor special abilities.

The rule in A&EG is optional, like all rules in splats. (You could argue that core rules are optional, but the point remains.) That said, it probably wouldn't break the game to allow it. Using that rule, bracers of armor and all of its derivatives (like a shirt of armor) could get special abilities.

IMC (meaning onofficial house rules), I consider all types of clothing to be AC-0 armors. You enhance them with Craft Magic Arms and Armor and can add special abilities. Bracers of armor are nonexistant because they're redundant and assigned to an innappropriate item creation feat.
BlackSmith
07-28-04, 03:56 PM Originally posted by Sensei Gith
If it's okay to have bracers of armor, is there any problem with a shirt of armor? Probably not. But it would be a wondrous item, cap at +8 like bracers, and be ineligible for armor special abilities. except that you could add the armor abilites as there is no rule that would prevent it.
you just have to figure their price first (that would be then same as calculating the MPM together and slapping the slot affinity penalty to top of that).
Thomar_of_Uointer
07-28-04, 06:56 PM I houserule that any magic items of this type (specifically clothing) cost 100% as much to make, due to the difficulty of making fabric hold an enchantment.
roll8dn
07-28-04, 07:19 PM Houserule, but...
If a shirt is of Masterwork quality (worth at least 300 gp), it can be enchanted. It has no ACP, ASF, or AC of its own (just like a pair of bracers), so it grants no inherant bonus of its own. Therefore, you can enchant it with any armor special ability (as per the armor special abilities table in the DMG), for the same price as an equivalent armor (+1 shirt costs the same as a +1 armor, minus the cost of the shirt or armor). It works for us.
BlackSmith
07-28-04, 07:43 PM Originally posted by Thomar of Uointer
I houserule that any magic items of this type (specifically clothing) cost 100% as much to make, top of that the slot affinty rule... thats 2,5 times the normal cost of bracers of armor to get +5 armor bonus!
at least you can say that your players dont get away anything creative cheap! :angel:
Hypersmurf
07-28-04, 08:02 PM Originally posted by Sensei Gith
IMC (meaning onofficial house rules), I consider all types of clothing to be AC-0 armors.

Lots of naked monks and duelists in your campaign? :)

-Hyp.
dwarfinamug
07-29-04, 06:27 AM Thank you for great answers. IMO clothes have an armor bonus of 0 an can be enchanted as normal with craft magic arms and armor. They do not hinder monks or duelists because they are not armor.

To back this up we have robe of the archmage. But if the DM does´nt like it i´ll use bracers of armor with special abilities from AaEG
Sisyfos
07-29-04, 07:57 AM Originally posted by dwarfinamug
Thank you for great answers. IMO clothes have an armor bonus of 0 an can be enchanted as normal with craft magic arms and armor. They do not hinder monks or duelists because they are not armor.

Make up your mind ;) Either they are armor and all monks wearing clothing lose their wisdom bonus to AC* (so you have a lot of naked monks running around) or they are not armor and are not valid objects for armor enchantment.

Sisyfos

* = As monks cannot wear armor, regardless of its armor check penalty or armor bonus it gives, and still use all of their special abilities.
Kyuketsukiouji
07-29-04, 09:19 AM When I play, clothes are treated as if they were armor, for purposes of enchanting.

And, no, my monks are not naked.

Sort of like how shuriken are treated as if they were amunition, but aren't, you know?
ryanroyce
07-29-04, 12:13 PM Originally posted by roll8dn
Houserule, but...
If a shirt is of Masterwork quality (worth at least 300 gp)

Shouldn't that be "worth at least 150 gp" instead, since other MW armor costs 150 gp more than the standard version? The +300 price tag is only for weapons.

Ryan
Sensei Gith
07-29-04, 12:17 PM Originally posted by Hypersmurf
Lots of naked monks and duelists in your campaign? :)

-Hyp.
AC-0 penaltyless armors.
Derren S.
07-29-04, 12:47 PM Still, monks loose their Wis bonus to Ac when they wear armor, penalties or not.
So when you rule that clothes are AC 0 armor, monks loose their wis to Ac when wearing clothes.
Aimless Wanderer
07-29-04, 02:28 PM bracers of armor can be thought of armor base zero (monks and dualists and the like still keep their unarmored bonuses, obviously) with an armor enhancement bonus. i as a dm would see no problem using a shirt/vest have the same properties, seeing as you can't have magical armor AND magical shirt/vest (kinda like circlet and hat).

i dont think its too much of a stretch to allow the armor modifiers to be allowed on your shirt too, such as SR (as you mentioned) or glamored (so you dont look like you're wearing the same dirty looking shirt everyday)
Krelios
07-29-04, 02:34 PM Armor bonuses are fine (see Bracers of Armor, or Robe of the Archmagi). Armor special properties can ONLY go on armor. That's to prevent classes that normally can't wear armor from getting the special benefits that armors can provide. It's called balance.

No monks in t-shirts of heavy fortification or wizards in tank tops of brilliance.

Not to mention the costs are different for making bracers of armor +4 and putting a +4 on a suit of leather.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dwarfinamug 07-28-04, 02:50 PM	Clothes are nothing bur an armor with an armor bonus of 0, right? Could one make for example a shirt +3 of spell resistance?
Derren S. 07-28-04, 02:56 PM	No. Clothes are clothes and not armor and you can't enchant them with the armor rules. If clothes were armor, monks must run arround naked.
lekpic 07-28-04, 03:06 PM	But you could, however make glammored armor that looks like clothes.
BlackSmith 07-28-04, 03:12 PM	Originally posted by dwarfinamug Could one make for example a shirt +3 of spell resistance? sure you can. +3 armor bouns and spell resistance 13 is equal to +5 MPM = 5² * 1000 = 25 000 but as your shirt is in the wrong body slot it resives +50% price penalty as slot affinity rules thus: 25kgp * 1,5 = 37,5 kgp. you could also price it by +3 armor bonus and 13 spell resistance that is not added to armor (just read) 13 SR is 10kgp. 3 armor bonus is equal to 3 MPM thus 3² * 1000 = 9kgp but as it is compleatly different power than the first it costs double = 18kgp now add them up. 28kgp. and as you cant realy say neither a Physical Improvement it gets +50% body affinity price penalty thus pumping the price to 42kgp. so depending witch way you want it done, it costs either 37,5 kgp or 42 kgp. if you are adding more armor abilites later, then the 42kgp version is better but cheap it will never be. . dwarfinamug you better have a look in here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=282022) Originally posted by lekpic But you could, however make glammored armor that looks like clothes. yes as per SRD: MAgicItemsII: Magic Armor and Shield Special Ability Descriptions Glamered: A suit of armor with this ability appears normal. Upon command, the armor changes shape and form to assume the appearance of a normal set of clothing. The armor retains all its properties (including weight) when glamered. Only a true seeing spell or similar magic reveals the true nature of the armor when disguised.
Sancus 07-28-04, 03:16 PM	Sure you can. See Robe of the Archmagi. If you use the Arms and Equipment Guide rules you can enchant bracers as armor as well.
MetalGemini 07-28-04, 03:22 PM	ya, if you can enchant a cloak or pair of boots or gloves (which aren't armor at all), I don't see why you can't enchant a shirt or pair of trousers.
Sensei Gith 07-28-04, 03:46 PM	By the core rules, armor, and only armor, can have armor special abilities. Shields are for all intents and purposes (enhancement bonuses, monk abilities, etc.) a type of armor. The robe of the archmagi is a unique item that functions like bracers of armor. They provide an armor bonus but are not armor and are not eligible for special abilities like fortification. If it's okay to have bracers of armor, is there any problem with a shirt of armor? Probably not. But it would be a wondrous item, cap at +8 like bracers, and be ineligible for armor special abilities. The rule in A&EG is optional, like all rules in splats. (You could argue that core rules are optional, but the point remains.) That said, it probably wouldn't break the game to allow it. Using that rule, bracers of armor and all of its derivatives (like a shirt of armor) could get special abilities. IMC (meaning onofficial house rules), I consider all types of clothing to be AC-0 armors. You enhance them with Craft Magic Arms and Armor and can add special abilities. Bracers of armor are nonexistant because they're redundant and assigned to an innappropriate item creation feat.
BlackSmith 07-28-04, 03:56 PM	Originally posted by Sensei Gith If it's okay to have bracers of armor, is there any problem with a shirt of armor? Probably not. But it would be a wondrous item, cap at +8 like bracers, and be ineligible for armor special abilities. except that you could add the armor abilites as there is no rule that would prevent it. you just have to figure their price first (that would be then same as calculating the MPM together and slapping the slot affinity penalty to top of that).
Thomar_of_Uointer 07-28-04, 06:56 PM	I houserule that any magic items of this type (specifically clothing) cost 100% as much to make, due to the difficulty of making fabric hold an enchantment.
roll8dn 07-28-04, 07:19 PM	Houserule, but... If a shirt is of Masterwork quality (worth at least 300 gp), it can be enchanted. It has no ACP, ASF, or AC of its own (just like a pair of bracers), so it grants no inherant bonus of its own. Therefore, you can enchant it with any armor special ability (as per the armor special abilities table in the DMG), for the same price as an equivalent armor (+1 shirt costs the same as a +1 armor, minus the cost of the shirt or armor). It works for us.
BlackSmith 07-28-04, 07:43 PM	Originally posted by Thomar of Uointer I houserule that any magic items of this type (specifically clothing) cost 100% as much to make, top of that the slot affinty rule... thats 2,5 times the normal cost of bracers of armor to get +5 armor bonus! at least you can say that your players dont get away anything creative cheap! :angel:
Hypersmurf 07-28-04, 08:02 PM	Originally posted by Sensei Gith IMC (meaning onofficial house rules), I consider all types of clothing to be AC-0 armors. Lots of naked monks and duelists in your campaign? :) -Hyp.
dwarfinamug 07-29-04, 06:27 AM	Thank you for great answers. IMO clothes have an armor bonus of 0 an can be enchanted as normal with craft magic arms and armor. They do not hinder monks or duelists because they are not armor. To back this up we have robe of the archmage. But if the DM does´nt like it i´ll use bracers of armor with special abilities from AaEG
Sisyfos 07-29-04, 07:57 AM	Originally posted by dwarfinamug Thank you for great answers. IMO clothes have an armor bonus of 0 an can be enchanted as normal with craft magic arms and armor. They do not hinder monks or duelists because they are not armor. Make up your mind ;) Either they are armor and all monks wearing clothing lose their wisdom bonus to AC* (so you have a lot of naked monks running around) or they are not armor and are not valid objects for armor enchantment. Sisyfos * = As monks cannot wear armor, regardless of its armor check penalty or armor bonus it gives, and still use all of their special abilities.
Kyuketsukiouji 07-29-04, 09:19 AM	When I play, clothes are treated as if they were armor, for purposes of enchanting. And, no, my monks are not naked. Sort of like how shuriken are treated as if they were amunition, but aren't, you know?
ryanroyce 07-29-04, 12:13 PM	Originally posted by roll8dn Houserule, but... If a shirt is of Masterwork quality (worth at least 300 gp) Shouldn't that be "worth at least 150 gp" instead, since other MW armor costs 150 gp more than the standard version? The +300 price tag is only for weapons. Ryan
Sensei Gith 07-29-04, 12:17 PM	Originally posted by Hypersmurf Lots of naked monks and duelists in your campaign? :) -Hyp. AC-0 penaltyless armors.
Derren S. 07-29-04, 12:47 PM	Still, monks loose their Wis bonus to Ac when they wear armor, penalties or not. So when you rule that clothes are AC 0 armor, monks loose their wis to Ac when wearing clothes.
Aimless Wanderer 07-29-04, 02:28 PM	bracers of armor can be thought of armor base zero (monks and dualists and the like still keep their unarmored bonuses, obviously) with an armor enhancement bonus. i as a dm would see no problem using a shirt/vest have the same properties, seeing as you can't have magical armor AND magical shirt/vest (kinda like circlet and hat). i dont think its too much of a stretch to allow the armor modifiers to be allowed on your shirt too, such as SR (as you mentioned) or glamored (so you dont look like you're wearing the same dirty looking shirt everyday)
Krelios 07-29-04, 02:34 PM	Armor bonuses are fine (see Bracers of Armor, or Robe of the Archmagi). Armor special properties can ONLY go on armor. That's to prevent classes that normally can't wear armor from getting the special benefits that armors can provide. It's called balance. No monks in t-shirts of heavy fortification or wizards in tank tops of brilliance. Not to mention the costs are different for making bracers of armor +4 and putting a +4 on a suit of leather.