Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mad_Olin 11-25-06, 11:59 PM	The description of this spell in the PHB II seems to have been cut off somehow, and I can't find any errata or clarification anywhere. I can tell how much damage the knives are supposed to do, but how many knives do you get? (And incidentally, is this a crappy spell or what?!)
SephDragoon 11-26-06, 12:10 AM	You get 1 per caster level... since it lasts 1 round per level... >_<
SirCaran 11-26-06, 12:11 AM	hmm... didn't notice that before, although i haven't implimented this book yet. that is a good question... wait...look at duration 1 round/level and the discription says one per round Damn too late :(
Mad_Olin 11-26-06, 12:19 AM	Oh, duh. That's what I get for not reading the headers. Thanks, ladies and gents! Also, they should rename this spell Light Vapor of Safety Scissors. I continue to maintain that it blows.
Ainamacar 11-26-06, 12:20 AM	As for usefulness, it's very situational. Overall, not as useful as Spiritual Weapon because it is only ever 1 attack per round, even though Spiritual Weapon will (likely) have a lower bonus to hit. The fact that you can aim it wherever you please without an action and that spell resistance doesn't apply is good. Against incorporeal creatures or those with DR it is at a clear disadvantage. It's not a fantastic 2nd level spell, but it is definitely too good to be a 1st level cleric spell, IMHO. Ainamacar
smrtgmp 11-26-06, 12:26 AM	it can yield a lot of damage over the course of the fight, especially when you concider that its only 2nd level and it doesnt take an action to fire them off after the first round. What do you want for a 2nd level DOT spell?
Mad_Olin 11-26-06, 12:26 AM	See, my issue is that you could throw something and do more or less the same damage at low levels with a low-strength character. I guess it'd come in handy when you run out of knives to toss. Sort of like how safety scissors are only handy when you don't have any real ones around.
Mad_Olin 11-26-06, 12:29 AM	You're right, smrtgmp. Might as well sit around complaining about how magic missile only does d4s of damage plus a little.
smrtgmp 11-26-06, 12:31 AM	but its a FREE ACTION to fire the knives. Not even a swift action. After your initial investment of a 2nd level spell and a standard action, it pays pretty good dividends. I'm not saying its the best spell ever, but its pretty solid for its level.
SirCaran 11-26-06, 12:35 AM	Wait just a minute. this is 1 free attack per round and it is tripling the effectiveness of the 1 knife/dagger that you need to cast it, at the lowest level you are able to cast it. plus that dagger is 1d4 and these attacks are 1d6 i would say that is pretty good spell
Mad_Olin 11-26-06, 12:42 AM	Fair enough. I hadn't taken into account that it takes a free action to launch another dagger.
Yorath_theWolf 11-26-06, 01:18 AM	you're also neglecting to take into consideration that as a 'personal' spell, this can be persisted. so that's a dagger(and hey if memory serves, as I dn'na wanna go digging) w/different material component knives you can get DR pierceing knives, a rnd all day long. sure it's odd walking around with a cloud of knives around your head, but once up for the day it's there all day long and ready whenever.
IceFractal 11-26-06, 03:28 AM	Also, if you have a little prep time before a fight, you can cast this three or four times and be launching several knives a round. Especially good when combined with Persistent.
Mad_Olin 11-26-06, 09:14 AM	you're also neglecting to take into consideration that as a 'personal' spell, this can be persisted. so that's a dagger(and hey if memory serves, as I dn'na wanna go digging) w/different material component knives you can get DR pierceing knives, a rnd all day long. sure it's odd walking around with a cloud of knives around your head, but once up for the day it's there all day long and ready whenever. This may indeed fall into the category of things one should remember to undo before walking back into town...
Osedox 11-26-06, 11:37 AM	I like this spell, its fun, very good for Rogue type casters who can also get sneak attack dice added on.
The Livewire 11-26-06, 01:30 PM	I read it and it reminded me of the 2e Melf's Minute Meteors spell. I had a 2e bard that would use that as his first offensive spell, then mix it up with sword attacks, darts, spells, what have you. A rogue with use magic device and a wand of this would be interesting. Party is trying to hold off the bad guys while the rogue works. Round 1, use wand Round 2 Search door Round 3 Open lock, assuming no traps. Meanwhile the rogue still gets a shot or 3 off. *Dagger sinks into orc's chest* 'Excuse me, trying to work here!' Also if you use a silver dagger, its' good vampire bane stuff.