Clutch of Orcus [Archive] - Wizards Community

Clutch of Orcus [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WyldMooN
03-06-05, 08:56 AM I dont know if the problem was adressed before (the Forum search engine was down when I posted) but I looked at the Clutch of Orcus spells wich seems a dark and violent. However, I was wonderering if there is anything to fix it?

Is it normal that a 3rd level spells does only 1d3 damage per round with a fortititude save allowed to break it every round, plus concentration required? I mean, it's an average 1.5 damage per round but even the 5-6 level mage has chances to break the spell's effect before it even does significant damage. Should the damage be upped (d8?) or anything else?
Pennarin
03-06-05, 12:53 PM The advantage of this spell is the paralysis. Unless the victim succeeds at a save each round, she stays paralysed.
No high-level character is meant to fail the saves for long, not with one save each round. That can be rectified by upping the DC.

The spell is concentration-based, has a variable numeric for damage, and no spell resistance.

That means a cleric can ...
- boost the spell using feats like Heighten Spell (increasing the DC by up to +4)
- apply Maximize Spell to it (using a free-metamagic solution, like a Metamagic Rod, Divine Metamagic, or Sudden Metamagic)
- double the damage and require each save to be made twice by using Twin Spell
- boost the DC by casting the spell from a wand with a gem on it (see Magic of Faerūn)
- take several feats like Spell Focus (necromancy), Greater Spell Focus (necromancy), or Malign Spell Focus
- make the damage more piquant with Violate Spell
- or make the spell but an afterthought with the very cool Extraordianry Concentration feat

You can choose several of the above suggestions all at once. For example, if you are an evil cleric, you can gain great power from such combos as Spell Focus (necromancy), Greater Spell Focus (necromancy), Malign Spell Focus, casting the spell from a staff in which its already twinned or maximized, ...
smrtgmp
03-06-05, 03:06 PM Off topic:

Pennarin: Thats an awesome Dark Sun link. I added it to my favorites. :)
WyldMooN
03-06-05, 05:38 PM Spell resistance applies, plus hold person already does about the same ting, but without the meager 1d3 points of damage, and without the need for concentration
Pennarin
03-07-05, 12:19 AM My copy of BoVD says "Spell Resistance: No."

WyldMooN: I understand too that that spell somewhat sucks in the damage department, but that's why I posted ways to make it better. Its tough to make 1d3 points of damage better (I can only see Twin and Maximize as having potential, since Empower would give up only 1 more point of damage).

A very good way of boosting this spell, as with any necromancy spell that inflicts damage, is by using it in conjunction with the Black Lore of Moil feat.

smrtgmp: :P You're the first to tell me that!
WyldMooN
03-07-05, 08:30 PM This one comes from Libris Mortis and they revised it as to make it so that SR applies. I still didnt get a good answer so far, you can never kill someone with that? If he's alone and low level, okay, but this aint usable in a fight!

You have to keep concentration butn the other guy might get a lucky roll, get up and kill you
Pennarin
03-07-05, 09:08 PM What can I say...

The factor that makes this spell interesting to use is its roleplaying appeal, what it does not in terms of mechanics but rather in gruesome effect.

A normal cleric wanting to use an efficient spell should not use this spell, but a cleric that already has Extraordinary Concentration and several DC-improving feats like Spell Focus can have roleplaying fun with this Darth Vader, Mola Ram-like spell while still squeezing some use out of it.

And as you say, this spell is not a first or even second choice for combat applications, but as a deterent it gives great effect.
Vatras
03-07-05, 09:20 PM Many people have not noticed the little note on page 4: BoVD is intended for the DM, not the players. Therefore spells, feats, PrCs in it are designed to be NPC stuff.
One of the uses of this spell is to give the players a timer to race against, when the evil priest sacrifices someone with it. Another is the grisly side effect for show, when someone (a NPC) gets killed by it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WyldMooN 03-06-05, 08:56 AM	I dont know if the problem was adressed before (the Forum search engine was down when I posted) but I looked at the Clutch of Orcus spells wich seems a dark and violent. However, I was wonderering if there is anything to fix it? Is it normal that a 3rd level spells does only 1d3 damage per round with a fortititude save allowed to break it every round, plus concentration required? I mean, it's an average 1.5 damage per round but even the 5-6 level mage has chances to break the spell's effect before it even does significant damage. Should the damage be upped (d8?) or anything else?
Pennarin 03-06-05, 12:53 PM	The advantage of this spell is the paralysis. Unless the victim succeeds at a save each round, she stays paralysed. No high-level character is meant to fail the saves for long, not with one save each round. That can be rectified by upping the DC. The spell is concentration-based, has a variable numeric for damage, and no spell resistance. That means a cleric can ... - boost the spell using feats like Heighten Spell (increasing the DC by up to +4) - apply Maximize Spell to it (using a free-metamagic solution, like a Metamagic Rod, Divine Metamagic, or Sudden Metamagic) - double the damage and require each save to be made twice by using Twin Spell - boost the DC by casting the spell from a wand with a gem on it (see Magic of Faerūn) - take several feats like Spell Focus (necromancy), Greater Spell Focus (necromancy), or Malign Spell Focus - make the damage more piquant with Violate Spell - or make the spell but an afterthought with the very cool Extraordianry Concentration feat You can choose several of the above suggestions all at once. For example, if you are an evil cleric, you can gain great power from such combos as Spell Focus (necromancy), Greater Spell Focus (necromancy), Malign Spell Focus, casting the spell from a staff in which its already twinned or maximized, ...
smrtgmp 03-06-05, 03:06 PM	Off topic: Pennarin: Thats an awesome Dark Sun link. I added it to my favorites. :)
WyldMooN 03-06-05, 05:38 PM	Spell resistance applies, plus hold person already does about the same ting, but without the meager 1d3 points of damage, and without the need for concentration
Pennarin 03-07-05, 12:19 AM	My copy of BoVD says "Spell Resistance: No." WyldMooN: I understand too that that spell somewhat sucks in the damage department, but that's why I posted ways to make it better. Its tough to make 1d3 points of damage better (I can only see Twin and Maximize as having potential, since Empower would give up only 1 more point of damage). A very good way of boosting this spell, as with any necromancy spell that inflicts damage, is by using it in conjunction with the Black Lore of Moil feat. smrtgmp: :P You're the first to tell me that!
WyldMooN 03-07-05, 08:30 PM	This one comes from Libris Mortis and they revised it as to make it so that SR applies. I still didnt get a good answer so far, you can never kill someone with that? If he's alone and low level, okay, but this aint usable in a fight! You have to keep concentration butn the other guy might get a lucky roll, get up and kill you
Pennarin 03-07-05, 09:08 PM	What can I say... The factor that makes this spell interesting to use is its roleplaying appeal, what it does not in terms of mechanics but rather in gruesome effect. A normal cleric wanting to use an efficient spell should not use this spell, but a cleric that already has Extraordinary Concentration and several DC-improving feats like Spell Focus can have roleplaying fun with this Darth Vader, Mola Ram-like spell while still squeezing some use out of it. And as you say, this spell is not a first or even second choice for combat applications, but as a deterent it gives great effect.
Vatras 03-07-05, 09:20 PM	Many people have not noticed the little note on page 4: BoVD is intended for the DM, not the players. Therefore spells, feats, PrCs in it are designed to be NPC stuff. One of the uses of this spell is to give the players a timer to race against, when the evil priest sacrifices someone with it. Another is the grisly side effect for show, when someone (a NPC) gets killed by it.