Combat Familiar [Archive] - Wizards Community

Combat Familiar [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
anamiac
02-23-06, 02:57 PM I'm creating a Gnomish Rogue/Wizard, and I've been toying with the idea of using my familiar (a black housecat) for combat. Spells I might consider casting on it to increase its effectiveness include:
Level:
1. Shield
1. Mage Armor
1. Enlarge Person
2. Cats Grace (a little Ironic, don't you think? ;)
2. Bull's Strength
3. Haste
4. Greater Invisibility
5. Permanency on Enlarge Person

Is pumping up a familiar with spells like this effective, or would I be better off just summoning some monsters? What do most of you wizards do with your familiars?

One other question: Do any of the metamagic feats increase Enlarge Person? I'm thinking especially of Widen Spell or Empower Spell.
dvlsadvct
02-23-06, 03:19 PM You'd probably be better off casting those spells on your allies.

I usually use my familiars as scouts. Using them to deliver touch spells can be adventageous in certain situations as well.
Rickiel
02-23-06, 03:24 PM Depends. Personally my character Raz, also a Rogue/Wizard, uses his Ferret familiar as a combat asset.

Some considerations.

1. Share-Spells, helps save up from double casting or making scrolls. But gotta stick within arms reach.

2. Armor Class, familiars are normally Tiny creatures, their size is their primary defense until their natural armor goes up with your wizard levels.

3. Skills, your familiar has YOUR skills! If you got 5 ranks in Tumble, so does your kitty. That means it can go full-defense and have a +6 bonus to it's AC! Not to mention if you use your kitty to deliver touch-spells that tumbling will help it get into range without provoking Attacks of Opportunity!

4. Aid Another, with tumbling, you can have your familiar occupy the same sqaure as your opponent, and have it aid either your defense or attack, or one of your allies! Fighter need a lil more umph than the flanking bonus? The cat comes to the rescue! (well...aid)

5. Spells, in the book Complete Arcane there are several helpful Universal Spells that deal with familiars. These should provide a bit of a boost. Polymorph your kitten into...YOU! .....wait I need to read that errat to see about my previous plans... And I have a write-up somewhere of a merge spell so that you and your familiar could become a hybrid creature for better dex, natural armor, and some other stuff....

6. Feats, if you have a hankering to take Arcane Trickster, but still want to improve your familiar's prowess, take Obtain Familiar feat. This makes it so that ALL of your arcane class levels stack as master class levels. Also think about taking Improve Familiar and having a CELESTIAL KITTEN OF DOOM!!!

Or at least a Celestial Kitten. Damage Reduction, Smite Evil, Spell Resistance if the cat doesn't already have it. All helpful.

7. Sorry, don't know how to answer your second question, don't have my books with me right now.

In closing, think about sharing spells, maximize the aid-another action, remember your skills are your kitty's skills, specialized for-familiar spells exist, and a couple of worthwhile feats don't hurt either!

"The use of words other than their literal intention. Now THAT! IS! Irony!"
Erple2
02-23-06, 03:26 PM I'm creating a Gnomish Rogue/Wizard, and I've been toying with the idea of using my familiar (a black housecat) for combat. Spells I might consider casting on it to increase its effectiveness include:
Level:
1. Shield
1. Mage Armor
1. Enlarge Person
2. Cats Grace (a little Ironic, don't you think? ;)
2. Bull's Strength
3. Haste
4. Greater Invisibility
5. Permanency on Enlarge Person

Is pumping up a familiar with spells like this effective, or would I be better off just summoning some monsters? What do most of you wizards do with your familiars?

One other question: Do any of the metamagic feats increase Enlarge Person? I'm thinking especially of Widen Spell or Empower Spell.

First of all, the cat isn't a humanoid, so Enlarge Person won't work.

Also, that's a LOT of spells to be able to cast on your familiar (a total of 6 rounds of combat "wasted") to make your familiar more effective in combat. Since you have a level 4 spell in there (greater invisibility), you'll need to be at least level 7 caster. I think you wind up with a problem - the familiar isn't really meant as a combat monster. In fact, it's outright dangerous to use it as such.

I can say that in all of my days of playing Wizards, I've never used my familiar in combat (scouting yes, combat no) mainly because it has few hit points, a crummy AC, and in general stinks as a fighter.

That being said, at level 7 you can do things like summon Celestial Lions (better at combat than your cat will be), or Fiendish Dire Wolves (also, better at combat than your cat will be).

I'd say stick with using your familiar outside of combat, and the fighting to other creatures.

Granted, the creatures listed don't tend to be particularly effective vs. CR 7 like monsters, but they can at least provide a flanking bonus for you (being a rogue/wizard, the rogue likes that part).
Arlechino
02-23-06, 03:57 PM Part of the familiar's share spells ability is that Person spells DO affect them. At low levels, you might find enlarge person beneficial on your familiar, since if you can get it to small size, it can flank foes for you (giving you sneak attack)

As for the rest, it WILL take too long in combat to cast these spells. I'd suggest getting a craft X feat, and using it to make buffing items for your cat (and yourself, and the rest of the party)
allenchan
02-23-06, 04:01 PM Cast the buffs on yourself and share with your familiar (especially like polymorph)
Or, be a War Weaver (Heroes of Battle) so you can cast buffs on EVERYONE simultaniously.
Neocon
02-23-06, 04:11 PM Part of the familiar's share spells ability is that Person spells DO affect them. At low levels, you might find enlarge person beneficial on your familiar, since if you can get it to small size, it can flank foes for you (giving you sneak attack)

2 problems with this:

In order to effect your familiar with Enlarge Person, you must also cast it on yourself. As a wizard, do you really want to make yourself easier to hit?
As soon as the familiar goes more than 5 ft away from you, it will lose the Enlarge Person. I cannot think of any way for two peoplpe to flank someone and stay within 5' of each oter

Sorry to burst your bubble...
MarkB
02-23-06, 04:18 PM Part of the familiar's share spells ability is that Person spells DO affect them.
Only spells that you actually share with them. And it'll lose those spells the moment it goes more than five feet from you - which is pretty certain to happen once you put it into combat - so making it Permanent is a bit of a waste.

Without a reliable way of keeping your familiar at least Small in size, it'll be highly unsuited to combat because it has no reach, and will therefore provoke AoOs every time it attacks.

Yes, with the expenditure of a lot of spells, you might boost your familiar to the point where, so long as it stays right next to you, it isn't completely useless in combat. But those same spells would be about ten times as effective at boosting the combat capabilities of yourself or any other member of your party, with the added bonus that you won't lose XP and skill boosts if one of your party members dies. All in all, it's a very costly investment of resources for a very minimal gain.
anamiac
02-23-06, 04:24 PM I never intended to cast ALL of those spells on my kitty (I realize I don't have time for that), I was more interested in which ones you thought would be most beneficial.

I'm going to be playing a solo campaign, so unfortunately I won't have any friendly fighters to cast my spells on. But casting them on myself... There's some merit to this idea.

Thanks to Rickiel for some very good Ideas. I will look into the complete arcane book. Its also good to know that my familiar knows my skills (Do all of my skills apply, even such as disarm trap or open lock?) I am planning to be an Arcane Trickster when I get to level 9. I don't understand how the aid-another works, is that in the combat section of the book?

I really like the idea of polymorph. If I polymorph it into me, then have it deliver touch spells, that would really confuse enemies. What if I polymorph my kitty into... A DRAGON! And then cast greater invisibility on either it (and hide in shadows myself) or us both! The possibilities are nearly endless.

One big disadvantage I see to using my familiar in combat is that if it dies, I'm loosing experience and won't have my familiar for a year or something like that.
Puca
02-23-06, 04:40 PM Thanks to Rickiel for some very good Ideas. I will look into the complete arcane book. Its also good to know that my familiar knows my skills (Do all of my skills apply, even such as disarm trap or open lock?) I am planning to be an Arcane Trickster when I get to level 9.Some things are beyond your familiars ability. I thnk thats how they say it in the PHB. Lacking thumbs would, Id think, put Disable device and Open Lock out bounds. But maybe you have a really, really nice DM.

I don't understand how the aid-another works, is that in the combat section of the book?The rules for aid another in skills can be found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm) and in combat here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#aidAnother).

I really like the idea of polymorph. If I polymorph it into me, then have it deliver touch spells, that would really confuse enemies. What if I polymorph my kitty into... A DRAGON! And then cast greater invisibility on either it (and hide in shadows myself) or us both! The possibilities are nearly endless.It is amazingly awkward to manuver through a battlefield with two huge creatures staing in adjacent squares.

The deliver touch spells feature works much better for delivering beneficial spells to allies in combat than harmful ones to enemies. If you are playing solo, it doesnt help much.

If you want to go combat, Id suggest something from the Improved familiar list.

One big disadvantage I see to using my familiar in combat is that if it dies, I'm loosing experience and won't have my familiar for a year or something like that.Thats why I usually dont bother; although, oddly enough, I have one now with a bard (Obtain Familiar feat) and it is acutally going well: delivering cure spells is nice, and I have enough skill points and class skills in areas he can use.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
anamiac 02-23-06, 02:57 PM	I'm creating a Gnomish Rogue/Wizard, and I've been toying with the idea of using my familiar (a black housecat) for combat. Spells I might consider casting on it to increase its effectiveness include: Level: 1. Shield 1. Mage Armor 1. Enlarge Person 2. Cats Grace (a little Ironic, don't you think? ;) 2. Bull's Strength 3. Haste 4. Greater Invisibility 5. Permanency on Enlarge Person Is pumping up a familiar with spells like this effective, or would I be better off just summoning some monsters? What do most of you wizards do with your familiars? One other question: Do any of the metamagic feats increase Enlarge Person? I'm thinking especially of Widen Spell or Empower Spell.
dvlsadvct 02-23-06, 03:19 PM	You'd probably be better off casting those spells on your allies. I usually use my familiars as scouts. Using them to deliver touch spells can be adventageous in certain situations as well.
Rickiel 02-23-06, 03:24 PM	Depends. Personally my character Raz, also a Rogue/Wizard, uses his Ferret familiar as a combat asset. Some considerations. 1. Share-Spells, helps save up from double casting or making scrolls. But gotta stick within arms reach. 2. Armor Class, familiars are normally Tiny creatures, their size is their primary defense until their natural armor goes up with your wizard levels. 3. Skills, your familiar has YOUR skills! If you got 5 ranks in Tumble, so does your kitty. That means it can go full-defense and have a +6 bonus to it's AC! Not to mention if you use your kitty to deliver touch-spells that tumbling will help it get into range without provoking Attacks of Opportunity! 4. Aid Another, with tumbling, you can have your familiar occupy the same sqaure as your opponent, and have it aid either your defense or attack, or one of your allies! Fighter need a lil more umph than the flanking bonus? The cat comes to the rescue! (well...aid) 5. Spells, in the book Complete Arcane there are several helpful Universal Spells that deal with familiars. These should provide a bit of a boost. Polymorph your kitten into...YOU! .....wait I need to read that errat to see about my previous plans... And I have a write-up somewhere of a merge spell so that you and your familiar could become a hybrid creature for better dex, natural armor, and some other stuff.... 6. Feats, if you have a hankering to take Arcane Trickster, but still want to improve your familiar's prowess, take Obtain Familiar feat. This makes it so that ALL of your arcane class levels stack as master class levels. Also think about taking Improve Familiar and having a CELESTIAL KITTEN OF DOOM!!! Or at least a Celestial Kitten. Damage Reduction, Smite Evil, Spell Resistance if the cat doesn't already have it. All helpful. 7. Sorry, don't know how to answer your second question, don't have my books with me right now. In closing, think about sharing spells, maximize the aid-another action, remember your skills are your kitty's skills, specialized for-familiar spells exist, and a couple of worthwhile feats don't hurt either! "The use of words other than their literal intention. Now THAT! IS! Irony!"
Erple2 02-23-06, 03:26 PM	I'm creating a Gnomish Rogue/Wizard, and I've been toying with the idea of using my familiar (a black housecat) for combat. Spells I might consider casting on it to increase its effectiveness include: Level: 1. Shield 1. Mage Armor 1. Enlarge Person 2. Cats Grace (a little Ironic, don't you think? ;) 2. Bull's Strength 3. Haste 4. Greater Invisibility 5. Permanency on Enlarge Person Is pumping up a familiar with spells like this effective, or would I be better off just summoning some monsters? What do most of you wizards do with your familiars? One other question: Do any of the metamagic feats increase Enlarge Person? I'm thinking especially of Widen Spell or Empower Spell. First of all, the cat isn't a humanoid, so Enlarge Person won't work. Also, that's a LOT of spells to be able to cast on your familiar (a total of 6 rounds of combat "wasted") to make your familiar more effective in combat. Since you have a level 4 spell in there (greater invisibility), you'll need to be at least level 7 caster. I think you wind up with a problem - the familiar isn't really meant as a combat monster. In fact, it's outright dangerous to use it as such. I can say that in all of my days of playing Wizards, I've never used my familiar in combat (scouting yes, combat no) mainly because it has few hit points, a crummy AC, and in general stinks as a fighter. That being said, at level 7 you can do things like summon Celestial Lions (better at combat than your cat will be), or Fiendish Dire Wolves (also, better at combat than your cat will be). I'd say stick with using your familiar outside of combat, and the fighting to other creatures. Granted, the creatures listed don't tend to be particularly effective vs. CR 7 like monsters, but they can at least provide a flanking bonus for you (being a rogue/wizard, the rogue likes that part).
Arlechino 02-23-06, 03:57 PM	Part of the familiar's share spells ability is that Person spells DO affect them. At low levels, you might find enlarge person beneficial on your familiar, since if you can get it to small size, it can flank foes for you (giving you sneak attack) As for the rest, it WILL take too long in combat to cast these spells. I'd suggest getting a craft X feat, and using it to make buffing items for your cat (and yourself, and the rest of the party)
allenchan 02-23-06, 04:01 PM	Cast the buffs on yourself and share with your familiar (especially like polymorph) Or, be a War Weaver (Heroes of Battle) so you can cast buffs on EVERYONE simultaniously.
Neocon 02-23-06, 04:11 PM	Part of the familiar's share spells ability is that Person spells DO affect them. At low levels, you might find enlarge person beneficial on your familiar, since if you can get it to small size, it can flank foes for you (giving you sneak attack) 2 problems with this: In order to effect your familiar with Enlarge Person, you must also cast it on yourself. As a wizard, do you really want to make yourself easier to hit? As soon as the familiar goes more than 5 ft away from you, it will lose the Enlarge Person. I cannot think of any way for two peoplpe to flank someone and stay within 5' of each oter Sorry to burst your bubble...
MarkB 02-23-06, 04:18 PM	Part of the familiar's share spells ability is that Person spells DO affect them. Only spells that you actually share with them. And it'll lose those spells the moment it goes more than five feet from you - which is pretty certain to happen once you put it into combat - so making it Permanent is a bit of a waste. Without a reliable way of keeping your familiar at least Small in size, it'll be highly unsuited to combat because it has no reach, and will therefore provoke AoOs every time it attacks. Yes, with the expenditure of a lot of spells, you might boost your familiar to the point where, so long as it stays right next to you, it isn't completely useless in combat. But those same spells would be about ten times as effective at boosting the combat capabilities of yourself or any other member of your party, with the added bonus that you won't lose XP and skill boosts if one of your party members dies. All in all, it's a very costly investment of resources for a very minimal gain.
anamiac 02-23-06, 04:24 PM	I never intended to cast ALL of those spells on my kitty (I realize I don't have time for that), I was more interested in which ones you thought would be most beneficial. I'm going to be playing a solo campaign, so unfortunately I won't have any friendly fighters to cast my spells on. But casting them on myself... There's some merit to this idea. Thanks to Rickiel for some very good Ideas. I will look into the complete arcane book. Its also good to know that my familiar knows my skills (Do all of my skills apply, even such as disarm trap or open lock?) I am planning to be an Arcane Trickster when I get to level 9. I don't understand how the aid-another works, is that in the combat section of the book? I really like the idea of polymorph. If I polymorph it into me, then have it deliver touch spells, that would really confuse enemies. What if I polymorph my kitty into... A DRAGON! And then cast greater invisibility on either it (and hide in shadows myself) or us both! The possibilities are nearly endless. One big disadvantage I see to using my familiar in combat is that if it dies, I'm loosing experience and won't have my familiar for a year or something like that.
Puca 02-23-06, 04:40 PM	Thanks to Rickiel for some very good Ideas. I will look into the complete arcane book. Its also good to know that my familiar knows my skills (Do all of my skills apply, even such as disarm trap or open lock?) I am planning to be an Arcane Trickster when I get to level 9.Some things are beyond your familiars ability. I thnk thats how they say it in the PHB. Lacking thumbs would, Id think, put Disable device and Open Lock out bounds. But maybe you have a really, really nice DM. I don't understand how the aid-another works, is that in the combat section of the book?The rules for aid another in skills can be found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm) and in combat here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#aidAnother). I really like the idea of polymorph. If I polymorph it into me, then have it deliver touch spells, that would really confuse enemies. What if I polymorph my kitty into... A DRAGON! And then cast greater invisibility on either it (and hide in shadows myself) or us both! The possibilities are nearly endless.It is amazingly awkward to manuver through a battlefield with two huge creatures staing in adjacent squares. The deliver touch spells feature works much better for delivering beneficial spells to allies in combat than harmful ones to enemies. If you are playing solo, it doesnt help much. If you want to go combat, Id suggest something from the Improved familiar list. One big disadvantage I see to using my familiar in combat is that if it dies, I'm loosing experience and won't have my familiar for a year or something like that.Thats why I usually dont bother; although, oddly enough, I have one now with a bard (Obtain Familiar feat) and it is acutally going well: delivering cure spells is nice, and I have enough skill points and class skills in areas he can use.