Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Multani 01-25-05, 11:32 AM	I almost always play as a sorcerer and in a campaign im playing, 2 players playing a fighter :fight!: and a barbarian are disturbed at my damage dealing capabilities. (lvl 12 party). They callenged me in an arena fight 1on1 with them in succesion starting 40 feet away, and i destroyed both of them with little trouble. (i was rolling very good that day) :ayyyy!: So they tried both rushing me at one again from 50 ft, and both lost again. I can understand their discouragement, but it does raise the question, How DO you comabat a higher lvl sorcerer (lvl 12+) with melee charecters? More so, is the sorcerer class broken? :thinks: :help: I know this question has probably been asked alot, but i need answers fast.... I dont like it when people dont have fun, but i love arcane casting too much to give it up. :help: :help: :help: Thanks.
solbergb 01-25-05, 12:28 PM	Hm. If I was a melee character I'd fear the sorcerer who did "save or XXX" spells way above one that did direct damage. A melee who wants to fight a sorcerer needs two things. 1. The ability to fly, no exceptions. A spellcaster has a severe mobility advantage on a warrior. 2. A way to deflect the nastier save or XXX spells. This can be via multiclassing to get really good saves, or something as simple as being visible to be targeted (smokesticks do wonders against targeted spells). My monk often gets the "Take out the spellcaster" role, because he's highly mobile (at level 9, 60' movement plus boots of spider climb, plus enough jump tumble and balance to go past most obstacles, often without even slowing down) and because when he gets there, he can get the attention of the caster (grapple, reach weapons and combat reflexes and improved trip, a fairly fierce flurry attack if backed with spikes, etc). He also has sun school martial arts, so if you teleport/dim door him to the caster, he can grab him even when it isn't his turn (at L12, he'll be able to port himself) Even if I fail to nail down the spellcaster, I usually scare him enough that he directs all his spells against me...and yeah, I've invested in pretty good saves. They're not a sure thing though, so one of these days this role is going to get me killed. It is just part of the job. The key though is mobility and the ability to shrug off spells. All the average fighter has going for him normally is that he can ignore direct damage spells, because he will outlast the spellcaster's ability to do damage with his very high hitpoints. A caster-killer melee needs mobility and much better saves than normal, or a way to avoid being targeted (shadowdancers make pretty good caster killers, between their rogue skills, hide in plain sight and dimension door abilities) An open arena with any distance gives the advantage to the spellcaster. It is about as fair to your melee friends as it would be if you stood next to them and gave them the first swing before you'd cast any defensive buffs. The outcome is predictable.
troll18 01-25-05, 01:29 PM	Charge! When you get there... Grapple then Pin w/ cover the mouth and don't let go... once another warrior gets there have them hack the sorceror apart.
Multani 01-26-05, 01:08 PM	Charge! When you get there... Grapple then Pin w/ cover the mouth and don't let go... once another warrior gets there have them hack the sorceror apart. Well, this approch has been tried with 2 issues, 1) you need more than 1 person 2) Silent spell, Still spell They tried this twice.. It didnt work either time. However, i can see its value for whn the caster does not have one or the other feat :clap: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Solbergb, your ideas intrugue me and i wish to know more.. :bump: :lightbulb :teach:
Ringrose 01-26-05, 02:19 PM	Ring of Invisibility--cannot target what you cannot see... Ring of Evasion--For those area effect spells... ...move to within 5ft of him...next turn take a 5ft step...full attack on sorcerer...dead sorcerer... Ring of Evasion~25,000 Ring of Invisibility~20,000 Seeing your Sorcerer buddy dead~Priceless
Seeker95 01-26-05, 02:27 PM	Well, this approch has been tried with 2 issues, 1) you need more than 1 person 2) Silent spell, Still spellWhen you have a character pinned, you can still make an attack each round. And so can the other person (you said they both took you on). Even though you have silent spell and still spell, you are a sorcerer. It'll take you a full round to cast every spell. Concentration checks will eventually fail... especially with two of them punding your grappled rear each round. One on One arena combat among PCs tends to be determined by the initiative roll. If they are intimidated by your damage potential, too bad. They should be happy that you are on their side. And your DM should be kicked in the butt until he starts to send challenges (combat and non-combat) that require cooperation.
Multani 01-26-05, 02:54 PM	One on One arena combat among PCs tends to be determined by the initiative roll. If they are intimidated by your damage potential, too bad. They should be happy that you are on their side. And your DM should be kicked in the butt until he starts to send challenges (combat and non-combat) that require cooperation. :mage: :pint: :mage: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: PERFECT RESPONSE!!! And youve got a point on the other. Thanks everyone for your input! ^^
tarkin 01-26-05, 02:55 PM	Everyone keeps giving specific advice, often it has problems. I am going to give general advice. Sorcerors have one main weakness - the dificulty they have of changing the spells available. The best way to fight one is to pre-pare ahead of time, find out what spells they can cast BEFORE you go up against them, and go in prepared to deal with that. Are you a "touch attack" sorceror? They should get themselves some Rings of Deflection(aka Protection), Cat's Grace potions, etc. etc. etc. Do you like the big boom? Get Cloaks of Resistance. Do you have a really crappy fort save and rely on non-ac protections (Mirror Image, etc. etc.): Maximize their attacks, (two weapon fighting,many shot, etc. etc) and use poison.
Archtyrant Terevoth 01-26-05, 04:15 PM	If you're playing 3.0, then clearly haste is the problem. If you're playing 3.5, then I'm rather puzzled at how you're killing a fighter and a barbarian wtih direct damage. A cone of cold is only going to be doing 12d6, average 42. and your warrior types are going to have on average 102+ hit points assuming a +3 con bonus. You can't quicken spells as a sorcerer so that means you're going to require 3 rounds on average to kill them. Meanwhile they're going to be slaughtering you. Lead in with a power attack on the charge and just take you down that way. Assuming you've got a +3 con bonus (which is fairly high for a sorcerer), you'll have 66 hp on average. Two warrior types should easily be able to dish that out.
Vharuck 01-26-05, 05:04 PM	Hand the fighter a spiked chain. Done and done.