Cometfall: too powerful? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cometfall: too powerful? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Selgard
08-03-06, 12:09 AM Cometfall, from Complete Divine.
(I'm about 80% sure that's the correct name of the spell but me and my book are also 500 miles apart at the moment.. )

In short, the spell creates a bundle of weight that appears in the sky 10 feet up for every 2 level of the caster (no limit?) that does 2d6 damage per 10 feet up on impact.

So, isn't that 1d6/level with no limit, so long as the target is outside (and within range)?

If I have misread it, someone please let me know..

comments appreciated.
scottt
08-03-06, 03:15 AM I guess if you summon it too far up the GM could reasoably claim that the target will have more than a round to move out of the impact area.
Merestil Haye
08-03-06, 04:14 AM There are two basic limits. One is the caster level - after all, at 20th level this will be doing 10d6 damage.

The other is the height of the ceiling.

At very high levels, physics might be introduced - namely if he wants it to fall more than about 1200', it won't hit until the caster's next round.
cambric
08-03-06, 09:48 AM Cometfall, from Complete Divine.
(I'm about 80% sure that's the correct name of the spell but me and my book are also 500 miles apart at the moment.. )

In short, the spell creates a bundle of weight that appears in the sky 10 feet up for every 2 level of the caster (no limit?) that does 2d6 damage per 10 feet up on impact.

So, isn't that 1d6/level with no limit, so long as the target is outside (and within range)?

If I have misread it, someone please let me know..

comments appreciated.

I don't have the book in front of me, but if this is correct, it really isn't that powerful.

10' up/2 levels of caster would equal: 100' max at 20th* level.
2d6 per 10' of impact, is not equal to 1d6/caster level: 20d6 max at 20th* level AND 100'.

*(I'm not concerned about EPIC, because let's face it, a 22d6 spell really isn't that powerful for a caster at 22nd level)*.

With the limit of 100' the spell limits you to space. Sure, outside no problem but dungeon crawls are a whole different matter. So even if a 20th level caster casted this spell inside, and the ceiling was 30', you would only get a 6d6, not the 20d6, because it doesn't go by caster level, but the height of the comet. And maybe you can't cast it inside, I'm not sure of the wording, but if you can, there is a limit on its power.

(The above is going by what the OP posted, I do not have the book with me.)

So unless my math is wrong, it isn't overpowering at all.

Cam
Thiez
08-03-06, 10:50 AM It gets freaky when combined with fly or levitate.
Witch
08-03-06, 10:53 AM Just a reminder:

Ioun Stone +caster level
Prayer Beads: Karma

can improve you quite decently :)
cambric
08-03-06, 11:47 AM It gets freaky when combined with fly or levitate.

As a DM, if I wanted to control the power of it, I would stipulate: The range factor. If you were flying and tried to drop it past your 'range', then the magic would end and it wouldn't work for you. (It might even be RAW that this happens, but if not, there's way's of keeping some balance.)

So if you were flying at 200' up, then cast the spell, but you only had a 'range' of 100', it would stop at the 100' and the spell would end. You wouldn't get the 200' + damage. The spell would just end.

So far, nobody in my campaign has taken it, so I'm not worried about it, yet...

Cam
cambric
08-03-06, 11:48 AM Just a reminder:

Ioun Stone +caster level
Prayer Beads: Karma

can improve you quite decently :)

Very true, but that's with most spells. If asked if this particular spell is 'overpowered' or 'broken', I personally don't see how it is. But good point, you add other items and it can get scary.

Cam
cwslyclgh
08-03-06, 12:38 PM appearently WotC thought it was overpowered, because it got hit with a bit of a nerf bat in the Spell Compendium.

now it just does 1d6 per caster level (15 max) with a reflex save for half, people who fail the reflex save are also knocked down, and in anycase the area where the comet hit is considered difficult terrain from then on. the spell fails if there is not at least 40 feet of verticle space where it is cast.
Selgard
08-03-06, 06:27 PM i always forget to check that book.
It too, is 500m away at the moment. :\ goin home tomorrow though.. yay!

Without the Spellcompendium..

You are right in saying that 22d6 (or whatever) isn't that big a deal at that level, but given the level of the spell it does tend to get abit ridiculous.

(level)d6 does tend to get abit much for a spell of such "low" level (5th if I remember correctly? maybe 6th?)

range is 200 +10/level.. As a Dm I would adjudicate that the spell simply fails if the target "circle" is beyond that. I see no reason to treat vertical "range" any different from horizontal "range".. If the plot of ground you are aiming at is out of range the spell simply doesn't work.
As for aiming for air.. Well, that I think a Dm would take issue with. I'd ave to get the spell and re-read it specifically for this but I seem to vaguely remember that the target was a spot of ground.. but I could be mistaken.

i was just out of town and bored and had been thinkin about posting about this spell, and so decided to do so :)

thanks to you all for your input and such.. Muchly appreciated!
tiercel
08-03-06, 11:38 PM Prayer Beads: Karma

can improve you quite decently :)If I'm a cleric with a bead of karma, I'm not worried about cometfall. I'm using that unholy item to win the game with holy word (adjust flavor for alignment as appropriate) -- one of the most problematic combos in Core rules. Blah.

As for cometfall -- the higher level you get, the more "SR: No" is worth. I've ranted elsewhere about the proliferation of no-SR spells in supplements, but here's the short version:

The easier it is to completely ignore SR as a defense, the less significant SR is in making a fight challenging. Existing monsters with SR or magic "immunity" aren't as challenging with all these spells that ignore their defense, and so their CR is overrated if these spells are let in.....

...and...

The easier to is to ignore SR, the less important hitters are at mid-high to high levels. SR serves to make at least some high-CR creatures dicey to throw magic at, since in principle it might just roll off them -- you need some fighter-types in there to help out until you can land a good magical hit or two. If you have plenty of no-SR choices, though, its just one more reason you don't need anyone but spellcasters at the upper levels -- and that's already a problem *before* you get around SR.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Selgard 08-03-06, 12:09 AM	Cometfall, from Complete Divine. (I'm about 80% sure that's the correct name of the spell but me and my book are also 500 miles apart at the moment.. ) In short, the spell creates a bundle of weight that appears in the sky 10 feet up for every 2 level of the caster (no limit?) that does 2d6 damage per 10 feet up on impact. So, isn't that 1d6/level with no limit, so long as the target is outside (and within range)? If I have misread it, someone please let me know.. comments appreciated.
scottt 08-03-06, 03:15 AM	I guess if you summon it too far up the GM could reasoably claim that the target will have more than a round to move out of the impact area.
Merestil Haye 08-03-06, 04:14 AM	There are two basic limits. One is the caster level - after all, at 20th level this will be doing 10d6 damage. The other is the height of the ceiling. At very high levels, physics might be introduced - namely if he wants it to fall more than about 1200', it won't hit until the caster's next round.
cambric 08-03-06, 09:48 AM	Cometfall, from Complete Divine. (I'm about 80% sure that's the correct name of the spell but me and my book are also 500 miles apart at the moment.. ) In short, the spell creates a bundle of weight that appears in the sky 10 feet up for every 2 level of the caster (no limit?) that does 2d6 damage per 10 feet up on impact. So, isn't that 1d6/level with no limit, so long as the target is outside (and within range)? If I have misread it, someone please let me know.. comments appreciated. I don't have the book in front of me, but if this is correct, it really isn't that powerful. 10' up/2 levels of caster would equal: 100' max at 20th* level. 2d6 per 10' of impact, is not equal to 1d6/caster level: 20d6 max at 20th* level AND 100'. (I'm not concerned about EPIC, because let's face it, a 22d6 spell really isn't that powerful for a caster at 22nd level). With the limit of 100' the spell limits you to space. Sure, outside no problem but dungeon crawls are a whole different matter. So even if a 20th level caster casted this spell inside, and the ceiling was 30', you would only get a 6d6, not the 20d6, because it doesn't go by caster level, but the height of the comet. And maybe you can't cast it inside, I'm not sure of the wording, but if you can, there is a limit on its power. (The above is going by what the OP posted, I do not have the book with me.) So unless my math is wrong, it isn't overpowering at all. Cam
Thiez 08-03-06, 10:50 AM	It gets freaky when combined with fly or levitate.
Witch 08-03-06, 10:53 AM	Just a reminder: Ioun Stone +caster level Prayer Beads: Karma can improve you quite decently :)
cambric 08-03-06, 11:47 AM	It gets freaky when combined with fly or levitate. As a DM, if I wanted to control the power of it, I would stipulate: The range factor. If you were flying and tried to drop it past your 'range', then the magic would end and it wouldn't work for you. (It might even be RAW that this happens, but if not, there's way's of keeping some balance.) So if you were flying at 200' up, then cast the spell, but you only had a 'range' of 100', it would stop at the 100' and the spell would end. You wouldn't get the 200' + damage. The spell would just end. So far, nobody in my campaign has taken it, so I'm not worried about it, yet... Cam
cambric 08-03-06, 11:48 AM	Just a reminder: Ioun Stone +caster level Prayer Beads: Karma can improve you quite decently :) Very true, but that's with most spells. If asked if this particular spell is 'overpowered' or 'broken', I personally don't see how it is. But good point, you add other items and it can get scary. Cam
cwslyclgh 08-03-06, 12:38 PM	appearently WotC thought it was overpowered, because it got hit with a bit of a nerf bat in the Spell Compendium. now it just does 1d6 per caster level (15 max) with a reflex save for half, people who fail the reflex save are also knocked down, and in anycase the area where the comet hit is considered difficult terrain from then on. the spell fails if there is not at least 40 feet of verticle space where it is cast.
Selgard 08-03-06, 06:27 PM	i always forget to check that book. It too, is 500m away at the moment. :\ goin home tomorrow though.. yay! Without the Spellcompendium.. You are right in saying that 22d6 (or whatever) isn't that big a deal at that level, but given the level of the spell it does tend to get abit ridiculous. (level)d6 does tend to get abit much for a spell of such "low" level (5th if I remember correctly? maybe 6th?) range is 200 +10/level.. As a Dm I would adjudicate that the spell simply fails if the target "circle" is beyond that. I see no reason to treat vertical "range" any different from horizontal "range".. If the plot of ground you are aiming at is out of range the spell simply doesn't work. As for aiming for air.. Well, that I think a Dm would take issue with. I'd ave to get the spell and re-read it specifically for this but I seem to vaguely remember that the target was a spot of ground.. but I could be mistaken. i was just out of town and bored and had been thinkin about posting about this spell, and so decided to do so :) thanks to you all for your input and such.. Muchly appreciated!
tiercel 08-03-06, 11:38 PM	Prayer Beads: Karma can improve you quite decently :)If I'm a cleric with a bead of karma, I'm not worried about cometfall. I'm using that unholy item to win the game with holy word (adjust flavor for alignment as appropriate) -- one of the most problematic combos in Core rules. Blah. As for cometfall -- the higher level you get, the more "SR: No" is worth. I've ranted elsewhere about the proliferation of no-SR spells in supplements, but here's the short version: The easier it is to completely ignore SR as a defense, the less significant SR is in making a fight challenging. Existing monsters with SR or magic "immunity" aren't as challenging with all these spells that ignore their defense, and so their CR is overrated if these spells are let in..... ...and... The easier to is to ignore SR, the less important hitters are at mid-high to high levels. SR serves to make at least some high-CR creatures dicey to throw magic at, since in principle it might just roll off them -- you need some fighter-types in there to help out until you can land a good magical hit or two. If you have plenty of no-SR choices, though, its just one more reason you don't need anyone but spellcasters at the upper levels -- and that's already a problem before you get around SR.