Command word vs Use activated [Archive] - Wizards Community

Command word vs Use activated [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
siswick
04-22-04, 11:20 AM What is the difference? They seem to do the same thing, but command word is 200gp cheaper.
Naeron
04-22-04, 12:23 PM Not quite, a command word item is 200gp cheaper per (spell level * caster level). So for a 5th level spell that is a minimum 9000gp.

The difference is that a command word item is activated using, unsurprisingly, a command word which is a Standard Action to perform, an example is the Flaming Property of a weapon. A Use-activated property is activated when the item is used, an example is the burst on a critical property of a flaming burst weapon.
Elrana
04-22-04, 12:36 PM You kill an enemy, on his person you find two magic items, a small ivory cube and a small steel cube. You visit your local friendly enchantress and for a small fee, 75gp a piece (she's a Loremaster and makes a tidy profit while undercutting all of her competition and saving you money!), she identifies them and tells you that the ivory one is a Cube of Force and the steel one is a Daern's Instant Fortress. She gives them both back to you.

You play with them both and realise that pressing the sides of the ivory cube makes things happen. You work it out by trial and error and come to understand the item. (Use activated)

The steel cube does nothing no matter how much you play with it, shout at it, press it, hit it with a sword, throw it in a lake, suck, hold or bite it. Dissappointed you go back to the enchantress, as you enter she smiles sweetly at you, and speaks the dreaded phrase, "it's gonna cost you guv!" (Command word acticated)
phizuol
04-22-04, 12:45 PM If you are gagged or silenced (via spell) then no command word for you!
tarkin
04-22-04, 01:15 PM You should be talking about command activated rather than command word activated.

You can easily create a wand, etc. that requires a command to activate that does not involves speaking. Typical are buttons etc.

The difference between command activated and Use activated is NOT the word being spoken.

It is the Standard Action.

A command activated item should requires a Standard Action or more to activate. Good examples are potions, wands, staves, and BOTH of the cubes mentioned in that bad example above. (The cube of Force is a Command activated item, NOT a use activated item. It takes an action to activate it.)

A continuous item is always on, such as a a Continual LIght stone.

A Use activated item can be take no time to activate, but does not function when not in use. A good example of that is +1 Spell Resistance Shield. You only gain the SPell Resistance when USING the shield. If you strap it to your leg, then you do not get the SR.
phizuol
04-22-04, 01:26 PM The relevant info from the 3.5 SRD:

Command Word: If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed.

A command word can be a real word, but when this is the case, the holder of the item runs the risk of activating the item accidentally by speaking the word in normal conversation. More often, the command word is some seemingly nonsensical word, or a word or phrase from an ancient language no longer in common use. Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Sometimes the command word to activate an item is written right on the item. Occasionally, it might be hidden within a pattern or design engraved on, carved into, or built into the item, or the item might bear a clue to the command word.

The Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (history) skills might be useful in helping to identify command words or deciphering clues regarding them. A successful check against DC 30 is needed to come up with the word itself. If that check is failed, succeeding on a second check (DC 25) might provide some insight into a clue.

The spells identify and analyze dweomer both reveal command words.

Use Activated: This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.

Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character’s possession (on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case.

Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use activation is not an action at all.

Use activation doesn’t mean that if you use an item, you automatically know what it can do. You must know (or at least guess) what the item can do and then use the item in order to activate it, unless the benefit of the item comes automatically, such from drinking a potion or swinging a sword.
Elrana
04-22-04, 01:49 PM "You should be talking about command activated rather than command word activated."

Why should I? Command activated items don't exist.

"You can easily create a wand, etc. that requires a command to activate that does not involves speaking. Typical are buttons etc."

No you can't because wands are spell trigger items, hence you need to have the spell on your list to use the item so that you know the single word to trigger it. If you could 'point and click' (literally) then why could a fighter not carry and utilise a wand of CCW?

"The difference between command activated and Use activated is NOT the word being spoken."

Assuming you mean command word activation it is exactly the word being spoken that makes the difference.

"It is the Standard Action. A command activated item should requires a Standard Action or more to activate. Good examples are potions, wands, staves, and BOTH of the cubes mentioned in that bad example above. (The cube of Force is a Command activated item, NOT a use activated item. It takes an action to activate it.)"

All magic items take a standard action to activate unless the description states otherwise. Potions are use activated, you have to use it (i.e. drink it) for it to activate. Wands and staffs are spell trigger items. The cube of force is a use activated item, in order to activate it you have to use it, that use being pressing a side of it. The DIF is command word activated, you speak a command word for it to activate. Hence the use of that appropriate example.

"A continuous item is always on, such as a a Continual LIght stone."

Do they still exist?

"A Use activated item can be take no time to activate, but does not function when not in use. A good example of that is +1 Spell Resistance Shield. You only gain the SPell Resistance when USING the shield. If you strap it to your leg, then you do not get the SR."

Incorrect. Your example shield is still a +1 shield of spell resistance, even when not in use, however, when you are not wielding it you do not gain the benefits of it. That is a continuous item. Like a ROP or an amulet of health. They don't stop working just because they are not being worn.

I don't know where your information came from but please do make sure you are correct before answering a genuine request for an explanation from someone. Being wrong won't prove to be very helpful to them. Don't take that as offensive, just have a look in the book before you start waxing definitive.
phizuol
04-22-04, 01:59 PM Another set of good examples is the Horn of Blasting and the Horn of Fog. The Horn of Blasting plays like a normal horn until you activate it with a command word before playing it (command word activated.) The Horn of Fog pours out fog whenever you blow in it (use activated). I presume that use activated is harder to make because any moron can use it, whereas your party's barbarian might repeatedly forget the command words to his items.
siswick
04-22-04, 04:22 PM thanks for the info all

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
siswick 04-22-04, 11:20 AM	What is the difference? They seem to do the same thing, but command word is 200gp cheaper.
Naeron 04-22-04, 12:23 PM	Not quite, a command word item is 200gp cheaper per (spell level * caster level). So for a 5th level spell that is a minimum 9000gp. The difference is that a command word item is activated using, unsurprisingly, a command word which is a Standard Action to perform, an example is the Flaming Property of a weapon. A Use-activated property is activated when the item is used, an example is the burst on a critical property of a flaming burst weapon.
Elrana 04-22-04, 12:36 PM	You kill an enemy, on his person you find two magic items, a small ivory cube and a small steel cube. You visit your local friendly enchantress and for a small fee, 75gp a piece (she's a Loremaster and makes a tidy profit while undercutting all of her competition and saving you money!), she identifies them and tells you that the ivory one is a Cube of Force and the steel one is a Daern's Instant Fortress. She gives them both back to you. You play with them both and realise that pressing the sides of the ivory cube makes things happen. You work it out by trial and error and come to understand the item. (Use activated) The steel cube does nothing no matter how much you play with it, shout at it, press it, hit it with a sword, throw it in a lake, suck, hold or bite it. Dissappointed you go back to the enchantress, as you enter she smiles sweetly at you, and speaks the dreaded phrase, "it's gonna cost you guv!" (Command word acticated)
phizuol 04-22-04, 12:45 PM	If you are gagged or silenced (via spell) then no command word for you!
tarkin 04-22-04, 01:15 PM	You should be talking about command activated rather than command word activated. You can easily create a wand, etc. that requires a command to activate that does not involves speaking. Typical are buttons etc. The difference between command activated and Use activated is NOT the word being spoken. It is the Standard Action. A command activated item should requires a Standard Action or more to activate. Good examples are potions, wands, staves, and BOTH of the cubes mentioned in that bad example above. (The cube of Force is a Command activated item, NOT a use activated item. It takes an action to activate it.) A continuous item is always on, such as a a Continual LIght stone. A Use activated item can be take no time to activate, but does not function when not in use. A good example of that is +1 Spell Resistance Shield. You only gain the SPell Resistance when USING the shield. If you strap it to your leg, then you do not get the SR.
phizuol 04-22-04, 01:26 PM	The relevant info from the 3.5 SRD: Command Word: If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed. A command word can be a real word, but when this is the case, the holder of the item runs the risk of activating the item accidentally by speaking the word in normal conversation. More often, the command word is some seemingly nonsensical word, or a word or phrase from an ancient language no longer in common use. Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Sometimes the command word to activate an item is written right on the item. Occasionally, it might be hidden within a pattern or design engraved on, carved into, or built into the item, or the item might bear a clue to the command word. The Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (history) skills might be useful in helping to identify command words or deciphering clues regarding them. A successful check against DC 30 is needed to come up with the word itself. If that check is failed, succeeding on a second check (DC 25) might provide some insight into a clue. The spells identify and analyze dweomer both reveal command words. Use Activated: This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory. Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character’s possession (on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case. Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use activation is not an action at all. Use activation doesn’t mean that if you use an item, you automatically know what it can do. You must know (or at least guess) what the item can do and then use the item in order to activate it, unless the benefit of the item comes automatically, such from drinking a potion or swinging a sword.
Elrana 04-22-04, 01:49 PM	"You should be talking about command activated rather than command word activated." Why should I? Command activated items don't exist. "You can easily create a wand, etc. that requires a command to activate that does not involves speaking. Typical are buttons etc." No you can't because wands are spell trigger items, hence you need to have the spell on your list to use the item so that you know the single word to trigger it. If you could 'point and click' (literally) then why could a fighter not carry and utilise a wand of CCW? "The difference between command activated and Use activated is NOT the word being spoken." Assuming you mean command word activation it is exactly the word being spoken that makes the difference. "It is the Standard Action. A command activated item should requires a Standard Action or more to activate. Good examples are potions, wands, staves, and BOTH of the cubes mentioned in that bad example above. (The cube of Force is a Command activated item, NOT a use activated item. It takes an action to activate it.)" All magic items take a standard action to activate unless the description states otherwise. Potions are use activated, you have to use it (i.e. drink it) for it to activate. Wands and staffs are spell trigger items. The cube of force is a use activated item, in order to activate it you have to use it, that use being pressing a side of it. The DIF is command word activated, you speak a command word for it to activate. Hence the use of that appropriate example. "A continuous item is always on, such as a a Continual LIght stone." Do they still exist? "A Use activated item can be take no time to activate, but does not function when not in use. A good example of that is +1 Spell Resistance Shield. You only gain the SPell Resistance when USING the shield. If you strap it to your leg, then you do not get the SR." Incorrect. Your example shield is still a +1 shield of spell resistance, even when not in use, however, when you are not wielding it you do not gain the benefits of it. That is a continuous item. Like a ROP or an amulet of health. They don't stop working just because they are not being worn. I don't know where your information came from but please do make sure you are correct before answering a genuine request for an explanation from someone. Being wrong won't prove to be very helpful to them. Don't take that as offensive, just have a look in the book before you start waxing definitive.
phizuol 04-22-04, 01:59 PM	Another set of good examples is the Horn of Blasting and the Horn of Fog. The Horn of Blasting plays like a normal horn until you activate it with a command word before playing it (command word activated.) The Horn of Fog pours out fog whenever you blow in it (use activated). I presume that use activated is harder to make because any moron can use it, whereas your party's barbarian might repeatedly forget the command words to his items.
siswick 04-22-04, 04:22 PM	thanks for the info all