Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NeueRegel 04-13-05, 10:57 PM	Okay, Maybe I'm misreading the 3.5 rules, and missing something obvious, or something. I am 99% sure that I'm reading the Turn/Destroy rules correctly. You check the level chart, and roll your hitdice total, and Turn that many worth of Undead. If said Undead are half your level, you destroy them instead. Closest affectable undead first, then out to 60' or max HD roll, whichever comes first. Now, If I'm neutral and chose Rebuke/Command instead, it reads, "Do it just like a Turning check". Great, check the level chart, roll your hitdice total, and Rebuke that many worth of Undead. If said Undead are half your level, you command them instead... oops... wait: "Up to your level's worth of hitdice of undead may be commanded at one time". Huh? What if I'm 14th level, and I roll that I affect 26 hitdice of 2-hitdie undead? If I were good, I'd destroy all of them. But I'm neutral, so I command them, but I can only have 7 2-hitdie undead controlled at a time... What happens to the balance of the hitdice affected? I have 6 more 2-hitdie undead standing there, looking at me, at each other, wondering if they should keep attacking me, attack their traitorous brethern for liking me, or just waiting to explode in a disrupting cloud... Wassup with this picture? NeueRegel
dantedarkstar 04-14-05, 03:55 AM	I think that in that case the excess of the undead will be just rebuked. You COULD command them according to the roll, but you can't maintain that many. In effect, you immediately need to release few of them. Normally, released undead may attack you, but in this situation, they were just rebuked so strongly you could control them. Since you didn't, they just remain rebuked. For sure they won't start attacking you right away.
NeueRegel 04-14-05, 11:41 AM	Thanks dantedarkstar. As I thought about it some, I thought of this: From Chill Touch: "An undead creature you touch takes no damage of either sort, but it must make a successful Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1d4 rounds +1 round per caster level." [note: I'm not suggesting this as the effect or duration, just making a comparison]. So, since the remainder of the Undead that I affected don't fall under my "control limit", but I don't destroy undead either, maybe they would run away (turned, in affect) out of fear of falling under my command? (or staying rebuked/awed if unable to leave). [Kinda what dantedarkstar said]. What do ya'll think? Any other takers? Any "official" ruling out there? NeueRegel
PiT_FiEnD 04-14-05, 09:28 PM	You would command the closest undead/s to you if your rebuking level check is 2 x there HD + turn resistance and anything that you cannot command due to the controlled undead/s HD exceeding cleric level would be effected as being rebuked (assuming the rebuke check and the rebuke damage roll was high enough to effect these undead). I hope this has cleared it up a little, for more effective ways of controlling undead you should get Libris Mortis it's got some great items that reduce the undeads turn resistance and feats that are undead related.
PiT_FiEnD 04-14-05, 09:51 PM	The undead that were previously controlled and are no longer under your control would be free to do whatever there normal tendencies would be assuming they weren't rebuked again. I think the Control Undead spell in PHB says intelligent undead remember that you controled them. So you could gather from that, that mindless undead like zombies and skeletons would go WTF? and then proceed to attack the closest living thing. Vampires, Ghouls, Wights and various others would be more likely to assess the situation, because they are intelligent. Some of these undead may choose to flee, not because they're affected like the turn or rebuke ability but because they want to prolong there undeath (life) by retreating from an opponent that can easily control them and possibly quite easily destroy them. Of course these intelligent undead may have other various goals, they might plead for there life (say as to not be destroyed or controlled again), they may hold a grudge or in general hold a disliking for all living creatures and decide to attack. As usual it comes down to DM's decision, and the player discussing with the DM to possibly make him aware that not all undead have one tracked minds.