Competence Bonus Items for Everything?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Competence Bonus Items for Everything?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mindwin
09-13-06, 03:52 PM A player of mine, that has a Incantatrix character, wants to make a item that adds a competence bonus to spellcraft.

it raises a question, are there competence bonus items for ALL skills?

a magic tool that helps you craft faster and better is ok.

a magic gear/boots/cloak that helps you climb/jump/hide/sneak better is ok.

magic lenses or helmet that helps you listen and spot better is ok (if theres a item that gives +10 to hide, there must be one that gives +10 to spot).

Now, a item that gives a +10 bonus to knowledge?

Just so you know, the incantatrix PrC from Players guide to faerun has the power to add metamagic feats to her friend´s spells or to ongoing magic effects:

she can:

Empower the cure critical wounds of the cleric (DC 36)

Add persistent spell to her prismatic sphere spell (DC 63).

cast mordekainen´s sword, and next round add maximize spell to it. (DC 48)

ready an action to widen a comrade´s fireball. (DC 36)

It has a spellcraft test involved, the DC is 18+ 3x spell slot (after adding the feat modifier). The DC in front of the examples are what it would be if she tried that.

Now im on the verge of saying NO to her (+10 to spellcraft means 3 free spell levels after all).

Opinions on the question: can there be competence bonus to all skills?
Victor_Phoenix
09-13-06, 04:27 PM You can add a competence bonus to anything and when players get into making items that do so they really stick up your game.
Tequila_Sunrise
09-13-06, 04:49 PM As DM you could rule either way. I'd advize you to either disallow it or allow it with the stipulation that the item's bonus can't be added for the purpose of these metamagic checks.
Yak of Darkness
09-13-06, 05:25 PM Now, a item that gives a +10 bonus to knowledge?None that I can think of.

Now +5, on the other hand . . .

Crystal Mask of Knowledge
Each of the various crystal masks of knowledge grants the wearer a +5 competence bonus on a specific type of Knowledge check.

Faint clairsentience; ML 3rd; Craft Universal Item, creator must have 5 ranks in the Knowledge skill of the appropriate type; Price 2,500 gp; Weight ½ lb.There absolutely can be competence bonus items to any skill. The DMG formulae are pretty easy to use for them (although, depending on your game, it may be a good idea to boost/cut the costs of items that aid skills of varying degrees of importance). Whether or not you want to allow one to be made for Spellcraft (or allowed in your game, if there is already one out there) is a different story.

That said, your real problem is with the Incantrix. Just because there's a crazy PrC out there doesn't mean that a Spellcraft (or whatever skill you can think of) -boosting item is a bad idea.
baltasar_basilius
09-13-06, 06:12 PM there are 2 things that can limit competence bonuses:

1. if someone crafts a magic item that gives x bonus- they must already have x amount in their skill ranks(without ability bonuses etc.)
2.multiple competence bonus items for the same skill dont stack. you can't have both a +3 and +5 to make a +8.

so lets say they want a +10 bonus. they must already have 10 ranks in it and make ONE item that accomplishes this. so the higher the competence bonus gets- the higher the cost of squaring the bonus to make the base price.
StruckingFuggle
09-13-06, 07:57 PM Opinions on the question: can there be competence bonus to all skills?

Yes. You can.

And yes, that can result in things you don't like, like that, or a character with really a high hide skill sniping around easily, or whatever. You can say they can't make such items because you don't like them or they break game balance, however, you can't legitimately say that, by the rules of d&d, they can't make such an item or, as someone suggested, that it doesn't add to the spellcraft check for that class feature. You can say it breaks the rules of your game, but it isn't even stretching the rules of the system.
green_yawgmoth
09-13-06, 08:06 PM As DM you could rule either way. I'd advize you to either disallow it or allow it with the stipulation that the item's bonus can't be added for the purpose of these metamagic checks.
:rolleyes: That's like telling the rogue he can take levels in shadowdancer, so long as he never uses Hide in Plain Sight or shadow jump.

to the OP: Yes, you can have a competence bonus to anything by the RAW, since it represents becoming more competent at whatever.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
enlightened
09-13-06, 08:29 PM Two campaigns ago I was playing a wizard and I picked up forge ring as my 12th level feat.

The first thing I made was a ring of concentration +15.

Cost to create: 11250GP, 900XP and twelve days.
runestar
09-14-06, 12:47 AM The DMG has guidelines for crafting items granting competence bonuses to skill checks. The price is (bonus^2)*100 gp, up to +30(any higher and it is subject to epic item creation rules).

Note that these are simply guidelines, and thus, a dm still has the final say on whether to allow such items in your game or not.:)
The Simbul
09-14-06, 02:36 AM Players creating new magic items is an optional variant rule. Under the baseline D&D rules the ONLY magic items that exist are those that are published in whatever sources the gaming group uses, and new or campaign specific magic items created by the DM.

As for magic items that give a bonus to spellcraft checks, I would allow them, but only under the condition that they apply to certain kinds of checks, and not for others, much in the same way that a glibness spell's bonus to Bluff checks doesnt apply to feint checks or creating a distraction to hide. Specifically, I would not allow items created under the standard bonus squared X 1,000gp formula to apply to spellcraft checks for epic spells or the incantatrixes abilities. The DC vs. Character Level ratio for those checks were created under the assumption that bonuses to spellcraft were very rare and difficult to come by. That is why the Rod of the Epic Spellcaster has such an excessive market price, and doesnt use that forumla.
StruckingFuggle
09-14-06, 02:39 AM The DC vs. Character Level ratio for those checks were created under the assumption that bonuses to spellcraft were very rare and difficult to come by.

And your proof for this is...?
green_yawgmoth
09-14-06, 01:08 PM And your proof for this is...?
None. Considering that the DC is 18+(mod. SL x3), I think that the assumption was quite the opposite. base of 18 is already quite high, and tripling the new spell level only jumps it up even higher. To get an effective 9th level spell, you have to get a 45. Assuming a 20th level wizard, that's 23 ranks, +9 int (if we're nice and assume an 18 int +6 hb of int +4 levels) +10 (avg roll) is still 42, which is just short of what you need. If you want to add metamagic to higher level spells or have a better than 50% chance at actually pulling it off, you are nigh obligated to grab a spellcraft bonus item.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mindwin 09-13-06, 03:52 PM	A player of mine, that has a Incantatrix character, wants to make a item that adds a competence bonus to spellcraft. it raises a question, are there competence bonus items for ALL skills? a magic tool that helps you craft faster and better is ok. a magic gear/boots/cloak that helps you climb/jump/hide/sneak better is ok. magic lenses or helmet that helps you listen and spot better is ok (if theres a item that gives +10 to hide, there must be one that gives +10 to spot). Now, a item that gives a +10 bonus to knowledge? Just so you know, the incantatrix PrC from Players guide to faerun has the power to add metamagic feats to her friend´s spells or to ongoing magic effects: she can: Empower the cure critical wounds of the cleric (DC 36) Add persistent spell to her prismatic sphere spell (DC 63). cast mordekainen´s sword, and next round add maximize spell to it. (DC 48) ready an action to widen a comrade´s fireball. (DC 36) It has a spellcraft test involved, the DC is 18+ 3x spell slot (after adding the feat modifier). The DC in front of the examples are what it would be if she tried that. Now im on the verge of saying NO to her (+10 to spellcraft means 3 free spell levels after all). Opinions on the question: can there be competence bonus to all skills?
Victor_Phoenix 09-13-06, 04:27 PM	You can add a competence bonus to anything and when players get into making items that do so they really stick up your game.
Tequila_Sunrise 09-13-06, 04:49 PM	As DM you could rule either way. I'd advize you to either disallow it or allow it with the stipulation that the item's bonus can't be added for the purpose of these metamagic checks.
Yak of Darkness 09-13-06, 05:25 PM	Now, a item that gives a +10 bonus to knowledge?None that I can think of. Now +5, on the other hand . . . Crystal Mask of Knowledge Each of the various crystal masks of knowledge grants the wearer a +5 competence bonus on a specific type of Knowledge check. Faint clairsentience; ML 3rd; Craft Universal Item, creator must have 5 ranks in the Knowledge skill of the appropriate type; Price 2,500 gp; Weight ½ lb.There absolutely can be competence bonus items to any skill. The DMG formulae are pretty easy to use for them (although, depending on your game, it may be a good idea to boost/cut the costs of items that aid skills of varying degrees of importance). Whether or not you want to allow one to be made for Spellcraft (or allowed in your game, if there is already one out there) is a different story. That said, your real problem is with the Incantrix. Just because there's a crazy PrC out there doesn't mean that a Spellcraft (or whatever skill you can think of) -boosting item is a bad idea.
baltasar_basilius 09-13-06, 06:12 PM	there are 2 things that can limit competence bonuses: 1. if someone crafts a magic item that gives x bonus- they must already have x amount in their skill ranks(without ability bonuses etc.) 2.multiple competence bonus items for the same skill dont stack. you can't have both a +3 and +5 to make a +8. so lets say they want a +10 bonus. they must already have 10 ranks in it and make ONE item that accomplishes this. so the higher the competence bonus gets- the higher the cost of squaring the bonus to make the base price.
StruckingFuggle 09-13-06, 07:57 PM	Opinions on the question: can there be competence bonus to all skills? Yes. You can. And yes, that can result in things you don't like, like that, or a character with really a high hide skill sniping around easily, or whatever. You can say they can't make such items because you don't like them or they break game balance, however, you can't legitimately say that, by the rules of d&d, they can't make such an item or, as someone suggested, that it doesn't add to the spellcraft check for that class feature. You can say it breaks the rules of your game, but it isn't even stretching the rules of the system.
green_yawgmoth 09-13-06, 08:06 PM	As DM you could rule either way. I'd advize you to either disallow it or allow it with the stipulation that the item's bonus can't be added for the purpose of these metamagic checks. :rolleyes: That's like telling the rogue he can take levels in shadowdancer, so long as he never uses Hide in Plain Sight or shadow jump. to the OP: Yes, you can have a competence bonus to anything by the RAW, since it represents becoming more competent at whatever. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
enlightened 09-13-06, 08:29 PM	Two campaigns ago I was playing a wizard and I picked up forge ring as my 12th level feat. The first thing I made was a ring of concentration +15. Cost to create: 11250GP, 900XP and twelve days.
runestar 09-14-06, 12:47 AM	The DMG has guidelines for crafting items granting competence bonuses to skill checks. The price is (bonus^2)*100 gp, up to +30(any higher and it is subject to epic item creation rules). Note that these are simply guidelines, and thus, a dm still has the final say on whether to allow such items in your game or not.:)
The Simbul 09-14-06, 02:36 AM	Players creating new magic items is an optional variant rule. Under the baseline D&D rules the ONLY magic items that exist are those that are published in whatever sources the gaming group uses, and new or campaign specific magic items created by the DM. As for magic items that give a bonus to spellcraft checks, I would allow them, but only under the condition that they apply to certain kinds of checks, and not for others, much in the same way that a glibness spell's bonus to Bluff checks doesnt apply to feint checks or creating a distraction to hide. Specifically, I would not allow items created under the standard bonus squared X 1,000gp formula to apply to spellcraft checks for epic spells or the incantatrixes abilities. The DC vs. Character Level ratio for those checks were created under the assumption that bonuses to spellcraft were very rare and difficult to come by. That is why the Rod of the Epic Spellcaster has such an excessive market price, and doesnt use that forumla.
StruckingFuggle 09-14-06, 02:39 AM	The DC vs. Character Level ratio for those checks were created under the assumption that bonuses to spellcraft were very rare and difficult to come by. And your proof for this is...?
green_yawgmoth 09-14-06, 01:08 PM	And your proof for this is...? None. Considering that the DC is 18+(mod. SL x3), I think that the assumption was quite the opposite. base of 18 is already quite high, and tripling the new spell level only jumps it up even higher. To get an effective 9th level spell, you have to get a 45. Assuming a 20th level wizard, that's 23 ranks, +9 int (if we're nice and assume an 18 int +6 hb of int +4 levels) +10 (avg roll) is still 42, which is just short of what you need. If you want to add metamagic to higher level spells or have a better than 50% chance at actually pulling it off, you are nigh obligated to grab a spellcraft bonus item. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif