Post/Author/DateTime	Post
supermouse 09-04-07, 03:12 PM	Is there a limit to how many skills and Competence bonues a item can hold? I am sure there is because I recall something about weapons/armor having no more then +10 or something like that.
tarkin 09-04-07, 03:20 PM	The +10 is a pre-epiq limit (not an impossible) Similarly, there is a +30 pre-epic limit bonus to any single skill. But you may have as many skills as you want in one item. The reason why the +10 exists for the weapon is that at heart anything you are putting on a weapon should be helping you to do a single thing: kill someone. But skills in general do entirely different things, so it is OK to have a single item that is both +30 to search and also +30 to spot.
supermouse 09-04-07, 03:24 PM	AH! Okay that makes sense.
groveborn 09-05-07, 05:03 AM	I feel it's important to note that while one may add different skills to their item, one must also pay a difference for doing so, and said skill must be present in that quantity for the crafting. You pay 1.5x the cost for multi-use items like this. It's not a big difference. If one wished to have a +10 to hide crafted, the crafter must have at least 10 ranks in Hide, or a spell that grants such as a preres.
Dheran 09-06-07, 10:39 AM	I feel it's important to note that while one may add different skills to their item, one must also pay a difference for doing so, and said skill must be present in that quantity for the crafting. If one wished to have a +10 to hide crafted, the crafter must have at least 10 ranks in Hide, or a spell that grants such as a preres. You're making this up, I'm afraid. While it is sometimes the case that you need some specified number of skill ranks to create a similar competence bonus item, that's not always the case. Here are examples with, and without, that sort of requirement: Ring of Climbing This ring is actually a magic leather cord that ties around a finger. It continually grants the wearer a +5 competence bonus on Climb checks. Faint transmutatation; CL 5th; Forge Ring, creator must have 5 ranks in the Climb skill; Price 2,500 gp. Boots of Elvenkind These soft boots enable the wearer to move quietly in virtually any surroundings, granting a +5 competence bonus on Move Silently checks. Faint transmutation; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item, creator must be an elf; Price 2,500 gp; Weight 1 lb. There's no requirement of any Move Silently ranks to craft Boots of Elvenkind, nor a spell of any kind. Also elves, unlike halflings, get no racial bonus to Move Silently, so "creator must be an elf" doesn't help with the skill.
tarkin 09-06-07, 11:23 AM	He did not make it up. The fact that some items use different pre-reqs does NOT change the fact that pre-reqs are important. Yes there are OTHER ways to get a bonus, but the generic rule is that if you want to make an item with a +10 bonus, you need to have 10 ranks. What he wrote is important, particularly for the people that want to make high bonus items. I.E. Just being an elf may let you get away with making something +5, but you pretty much need something more than that to make +10.
Dheran 09-06-07, 03:22 PM	He did not make it up. To the contrary. groveborn stated an item creation rule that doesn't exist. Yes there are OTHER ways to get a bonus, but the generic rule is that if you want to make an item with a +10 bonus, you need to have 10 ranks. ... Just being an elf may let you get away with making something +5, but you pretty much need something more than that to make +10. It's a common pattern, but it's not a rule. Please don't pretend that a rule exists just because you'd like there to be one. Here's a contrary example with a +10 competence bonus to a skill:Elixir of Vision Drinking this elixir grants the imbiber the ability to notice acute details with great accuracy (+10 competence bonus on Search checks for 1 hour). Faint divination; CL 2nd; Craft Wondrous Item, true seeing; Price 250 gp. There's no requirement for any Search ranks, and the true seeing spell provides no bonus to Search.
groveborn 09-06-07, 04:08 PM	To the contrary. groveborn stated an item creation rule that doesn't exist. It's a common pattern, but it's not a rule. Please don't pretend that a rule exists just because you'd like there to be one. Here's a contrary example with a +10 competence bonus to a skill: There's no requirement for any Search ranks, and the true seeing spell provides no bonus to Search. I did mention the use of a spell prereq in place of the actual ranks, did I not? If the spell makes sense, and a DM rules as such, yippy. As for move silent ranks from being an elf, it's a hold-over from previous editions. Elves are known to be sneaky. It's accepted that one needs to know how to do something before one can teach someone else how to do it. So, I argue you must meet SOME sort of prereq in order to create an item. I believe you may agree with that much. The DM must decide what that requirement is to be, of course, but it's reasonable to assume in the case of a skill that either a spell that imbues a certain skill level, a racial feature that may imbue a skill level, or a skill level to imbue a skill level must be had. You can't, after all, make a flaming sword without a fire spell of some sort.
tarkin 09-06-07, 04:09 PM	No. You misinterpreted what he said, used an overly strict interpretation of it, then ignored the REAL rule, making up bullcrap. Part of the problem is that you are INSISTING on interpreating what we say in a wierd way, just to get your point of view across. Here are the facts. 1. There are no such thing as Magic Item Creation "Rules". 2. Instead there are GUIDELINES. It says so in the DMG. When we say 'rules' we mean 'rules of thumb' and guidelines, because as per the DMG, there is no such thing as the kind of strict, magic item creation rule you are pretending exist. This was specifically done to stop crap like the +20 always on sword of true strike, and the Ring of healing 1d8+1 each round for 2,000 gp. 3. If you insist on being overly literal, then here is what both graveborn and I state using the super exact terminonlogy that you want: "The guidelines for creating magic items found in the WoTC published book called "The Dungeon Master's Guide" state that you must satisfy the pre-reqs for all magic items in order to make them. Those guidelines are supposed to represent the creator already having the ability you intend the magic item to grant. Normally this is a spell, but there are not appropriate spells for all skills. For this reason, for competence bonus to skills, the rule of thumb is that you should have the same number of ranks that you are trying to create. " ------------ Or you could just do what graveborn said which provided the exact same information without all the sillyness. There are lots of examples that do not follow the "rules". Ring of Regeneration, Ring of Invisibility, etc. etc. We are talking about a major part of magic item creation, that the thread poster may not have known or thought about. Graveborn provided helpfull information. All you did was make a mess. You told the guy not to follow the 'rule' and did not tell him what to do instead. In effect you gave him the impression that any one could just make a skill magic item, which is not the way the game is supposed to play. If you wanted to be helpfull you COULD have instead said: "Your DM must set the pre-reqs to make the item. Sometimes you use the guideline that graveborn mentioned, but you might be able to convince the DM to do it with a spell instead"
groveborn 09-06-07, 04:42 PM	Yeah, thanks Tarfin. I say Tarfin because you call me graveborn. It's not the first time either. :cool: