Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Draco Strang 11-30-04, 12:17 PM	I just sat down and really looked at the new spells in the Complete Arcane, and soon happened across the Orb of [insert element here] and Lesser Orb of [insert element here]. 1d8 + another 1d8/two levels to a max of 5d8? What's the point of Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp, Burning Hands? Why even bother? Am I the only person who thinks that these spells are really generic and underpowered? It's a frickin' orb that can have any type of energy. Thoughts?
Kyy'Dakh 11-30-04, 12:42 PM	I haven't gotten Complete Arcane yet, so I don't know much about the Orb spells, but here's some of my thoughts, fresh off the top of my head: What's the point of Magic Missile?: Never ever misses (unless target has a shield spell or similar effect), can be used against ethereal and incorporeal targets with no incorporeal miss chance, and it won't be beaten by standard energy resistance/immunity. What's the point of Burning Hands?: Area effect. What's the point of Shocking Grasp?: ... Good question.
Tealgorthian 11-30-04, 12:55 PM	All the Orb spells require a ranged touch attack, that is why they have higher damage dice. Magic Missile never misses, Burning Hands is AoE. And seriously. Has anyone -ever- used Shocking Hands? I didnt use it in 2nd ed.
Draco Strang 11-30-04, 01:01 PM	All the Orb spells require a ranged touch attack, that is why they have higher damage dice. Magic Missile never misses, Burning Hands is AoE. And seriously. Has anyone -ever- used Shocking Hands? I didnt use it in 2nd ed. True, magic missile doesnt miss, but how many times have you rolled damage on it came up with 1+1 as a 2nd level mage? On the contrary, This orb spell does require a ranged touch...but you have to hit what, an AC of 13 or 14 tops on most monsters and humans? Even mages, with dex and a low BAB stand a good chance of hitting that. Or, if you are really worried, cast truestrike first, and let the magic happen. Shocking grasp is sweet, btw...I can't tell you how often I've taken my 5 foot step, attacked, and then moved away. Plus, in metal armor they take another 1d6 damage from you. I really think these new orb spells are overpowered. At the very least, they should be limited to warmage, and not on the sorc/wizard list.
ConfusedUs 11-30-04, 01:04 PM	Shocking grasp is sweet, btw...I can't tell you how often I've taken my 5 foot step, attacked, and then moved away. Plus, in metal armor they take another 1d6 damage from you. that's too many actions 5' step and attack is all you can do. You couldn't move away until your next turn.
Lost Aeons 11-30-04, 01:18 PM	And seriously. Has anyone -ever- used Shocking Hands? I didnt use it in 2nd ed. I use it all the time. No saving throw, no SR... It's pretty handy.
Tealgorthian 11-30-04, 01:26 PM	True, magic missile doesnt miss, but how many times have you rolled damage on it came up with 1+1 as a 2nd level mage? On the contrary, This orb spell does require a ranged touch...but you have to hit what, an AC of 13 or 14 tops on most monsters and humans? Even mages, with dex and a low BAB stand a good chance of hitting that. Or, if you are really worried, cast truestrike first, and let the magic happen. if a second level mage rolls a 1 with any of the Lesser Orbs, he does 1 point of damage, not 2 ;p Magic Missile is also a force effect, meaning it will always hit incorpreal creatures, and never be subject to energy resistance/immunity, which is another problem for the orb spells. That, and there is one for each element, which is also a pain >< I use it all the time. No saving throw, no SR... It's pretty handy. If it requires a melee touch attack, I dont take it. If I am -that- close to someone in combat, my action is usually to run away. No save and no SR is kinda cool, but really.. even at 3rd level an orc with a greataxe can end your mage. Splat.
Lost Aeons 11-30-04, 01:42 PM	If it requires a melee touch attack, I dont take it. If I am -that- close to someone in combat, my action is usually to run away. No save and no SR is kinda cool, but really.. even at 3rd level an orc with a greataxe can end your mage. Splat. Eh, it's one of those things thats tactics dependant. Buff up with Alter Self, Mage Armor and even a low level mage can do well in combat. A lowlevel Gish type can do even better. *shrugs*
cwslyclgh 11-30-04, 01:44 PM	no, the lesser orbs are not over-powered in thier CA incarnation (They might have been in their T&B incarnation, but that is debatable). ass for the normal 4th level orbs, if anything they are slightly underpowered in their CA form... I thought that they were fine in thier T&B form where you could devide them up into multiple orbs.
Draco Strang 11-30-04, 02:30 PM	that's too many actions 5' step and attack is all you can do. You couldn't move away until your next turn. Ok, I'm full of ****. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that. That's not actually how we work combat in our campaigns...bit of a mental fart. Sorry.
Keenath 11-30-04, 02:49 PM	I like the old Monk of Shocking Grasp trick. You can punch *really hard* now... ;) Apart from that, the main advantage of Shocking Grasp is delivering lots of damage at low levels. No other 1st level spell gives you d6/level -- most are d6 per 2 levels. There are a lot of 1st level spells that are useful when you start out, but become pretty useless by 10th level, if not earlier.
Annaylli 11-30-04, 03:46 PM	Small advantage with melee touch is that you can hold the charge. A miss with ranged touch wastes the spell. Touch spells give you more chances to hit. Very small advantage. It's better with a combat mage (str) or multi-classed (faster dice progression).
smrtgmp 11-30-04, 04:27 PM	Magic Missile also has better range than the orb spells IIRC. Plus, there is no way a low level mage will have precise shot (or improved precise shot), which means targeting someone in melee can actually be quite difficult when you factor in your non-existant BAB, the -4 penalty for firing into melee, and the +4 cover bonus your allies provide your enemy. Not to mention you have to be within charging distance. IMO they are not overpowered. Oh yeah, I used to use shocking grasp when the damage set up was 1d6+x (x=CL). It was a decent low level attack spell back in the day. Havent used it in 3.x, though, but I would as an Enlightened Fist.
SpellMaster 11-30-04, 04:54 PM	the -4 penalty for firing into melee, and the +4 cover bonus your allies provide your enemy. I believe the -4 for shooting into melee is BECAUSE of your allies giving them cover. You have to be careful not to hit them. I don't believe opponents get cover and you get a -4. I may be wrong, but I do not believe so.
smrtgmp 11-30-04, 05:06 PM	I believe the -4 for shooting into melee is BECAUSE of your allies giving them cover. You have to be careful not to hit them. I don't believe opponents get cover and you get a -4. I may be wrong, but I do not believe so. No, you have to deal with both. The -4 is because you are worried about hitting an ally. The +4 cover bonus only comes into play when someone esle actually blocks your line to the target. In otherwords, if you are flying or levitating above the combat, or if you are positioned so that you have a clear shot, you dont have to worry about the latter. From the 3.5 SRD:Soft Cover: Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Hide check.
Princeoflowlight 11-30-04, 05:13 PM	I believe the -4 for shooting into melee is BECAUSE of your allies giving them cover. You have to be careful not to hit them. I don't believe opponents get cover and you get a -4. I may be wrong, but I do not believe so. Nope. They get a +4 cover bonus to AC for having another body in the way. That always happens when there's an intervening creature and/or object. One of the weaknesses of Reach weapons (without Rank & File Combat.) In addition, you take an additional -4 on your attack roll for firing at someone who's in combat with an ally, unless you have Precise Shot. And that's the way it should be. Shooting into a melee without hitting your own guys is hard. EDIT: Whoops, appears I've been beaten to the punch...
digoraccoon 11-30-04, 06:00 PM	Shocking Grasp makes a great "Joy buzzer" gag. :D
ksbsnowowl 11-30-04, 07:43 PM	as for the normal 4th level orbs, if anything they are slightly underpowered in their CA form... I thought that they were fine in thier T&B form where you could devide them up into multiple orbs.But aren't the CA versions no save, no SR? (I don't have CA myself, that's just what I've been hearing around the boards) The T&B versions allowed SR and were save for half. Also, what is the damage cap on the new orb spells? Is it still 15d6?
Rundor The Mighty 11-30-04, 08:15 PM	All the lesser orbs are, are damage boosters for level 1 spells later on. Using them at early levels is worthless because: Hitting is NOT easy, if your level 3 with +1 BAB and 16 dex you have +4 attack against an enemy with ac 13. Almost ALWAYS your fighters will be in melee with this opponent making his ac 17. You have to roll a 13 on a d20 to hit, instead of using magic missle from LONG range to hit - Every. Single. Time. Now lets take into account cover, you sometimes have to deal with the cover they get making their ac 21. You now have to roll 17 on a d20, good luck. You can move to get a clear line of sight and get clear of this penalty, but what I've found is this is basically wasting your move action that can be used to get into a more defensible position as combat goes on, instead your using it to give the enemys a chance at getting to you easier. Not smart at ALL for a low level mage. The above also compounds with the fact that the range on lesser orbs I believe is short, meaning you will have to be within easy charging and such retributive attacks from angry enemies. Magic missile has long range so you can cast it from safety. Saying the lesser orbs are more powerful then magic missile is just plain foolish, if you would just playtest these things you would see how something that seems as little of a factor as a ranged touch attack and range=short can be a BIG compromise.
Talchar 11-30-04, 11:06 PM	The lesser orb spells from Tome and Blood spell, IMO were useless, I hated the combo of range touch + save vs half. The new version, no save, no SR, short range, seem just fine to me with respect to the lesser acid orbs. The 4th level acid orbs, damage without save is a tad much. A bigger issue, is how the orb spells interact with the new feats, classes and spell schools. For example, the feat split ray, does it apply to the orb spells?. The application of combat feats to these spells, the Practiced Spell Caster feat, point directly to the advantages of multiclassing. Warmage/Rogue combo springs to mind. My other issue with orb spell, is that they are part of the conjuration school. At issue, is that they blur the line between the evocation / conjuration schools. Typically evocation spells used the "energenic" energy types. (fire, lightning...ect) and do the best damage. Wizards that specialized in Conjuration, typically were summoner types, or creative combo's ( ie the various walls & fog spells. Now with these spells, the conjuration wizard can now specialize in high damage without SR.
cwslyclgh 12-01-04, 01:03 AM	But aren't the CA versions no save, no SR? (I don't have CA myself, that's just what I've been hearing around the boards) The T&B versions allowed SR and were save for half. Also, what is the damage cap on the new orb spells? Is it still 15d6? yes it is 15d6... but you only get one orb... so you are doing that damage with no SR and no save (although there is a save to aviod the secondary effect) to a single target... if you hit him...
[GSV] Kirstar 12-01-04, 04:08 AM	eversince chronatic ord, back in the complete wizards handbook and FR hardback, orb spells have been unbalenced. IMO damage is too high, its a spell writtten by a dodgy player with a bad DM. 15d6 max damage, no save (die you annoying rogue) and no SR. and whoop de do a ranged touch attack Going through the core spells, all the spells with SR none and damage dont fall into the artillery type attacks, look at acid arrow FFS. I will be going through the CA, when i can actually open my xmas presents and beating the orb spells with a very very large nerf bat called "NO CANT USE THAT"
Escef 12-01-04, 09:28 AM	Kirstar']eversince chronatic ord, back in the complete wizards handbook and FR hardback, orb spells have been unbalenced. Chromatic Orb was first published in the 1e Unearthed Arcana, to give the under-powered illusionist some firepower (along with a bunch of other useful spells, like Phantasmal Armor, the precursor of our Mage Armor). The balancing factor of Chromatic Orb was its material component. A gem of the appropriate type (or a diamond) worth at least 50 GP. Not many casters willing to blow that kind of cash to be an archer for a couple rounds. Especially at higher levels, when you have better spells with cheap or free material components.
HeavenShallBurn 12-01-04, 03:19 PM	1) In my opinion the power of Shocking Grasp is the touch range. You can cast this spell, and as it is a touch spell it won't dissapear until you use it, or cast another touch spell. So you can cast this spell and if hours later you are in melee range, use it. 2) I think the Orb spells are just fine. The damage cap is 15d6 without a save, but as you are lvl 15 to cast it at full efferct you know Lvl 7, and maybe lvl 8 spells, that are even much more powerful. Its just a nice damaging spell (against a single opponent (!!)) for the way to higher level spells
eRaz0r 12-01-04, 04:30 PM	I tell you what - Orb spells @ 4th level are the low on my list after a) Evards Black Tentacles b) Polymorph c) Enervation d) Solid Fog. But our party has a paladin with a ring of free action, so it makes sense for me to soften up the targets for him and use area denial tactics and leave the massive damage to him. Doing 7d6 damage to a single target is nice, but having an entire 20' radius spread doing 1d6+4 per round to everyone in it (for 7 rounds) - as well as pinning opponents in that area and preventing them from leaving (or casting spells, probably) is possibly going to see more use. Especially since our paladin can wade into that area and smack enemies upside the head without fear of being caught in it himself. The Orb spells aren't overly powerful, IMHO.
HeavenShallBurn 12-01-04, 04:52 PM	What is a ring of free action, and why should it prevent your paladin from being grappled and pinned by Evards black tentacles ?
amoeba 12-01-04, 04:56 PM	ring of freedom of action. its in the DMG.
eRaz0r 12-01-04, 07:20 PM	More specifically, the Ring of Freedom of Action (known as Ring of Free Action in 1st/2nd ed) means the wearer operates as if under the spell Freedom of Action at all times : meaning he automatically makes all grapple checks or escape artist checks to escape from a grapple, (among other things). So Evards Black tentacles, which makes grapples against everyone in its area of effect, has no effect on him, since he cannot be grappled. He's also not impeded by Web (another favorite tactic for us is to have him wade into the web to take out creatures caught within it). However, these two spells are still quite superior to direct damage spells in 3.5, since they can be used to control the battlefield, notable who can attack us and along which avenues of approach. Generally speaking it's better to completely remove a creature from a combat than to do small amounts of damage to it. Most Direct Damage spells, especially area effect ones, rapidly fall off in usefulness for removing all but low-level minions from the battle. Some people like to say "any damage is useful" but that fails to realize that a better use of that spell slot would have been to take out those targets completely. A creature who survives your spell with no effects other than HP loss is a creature that can still output its full attack. If, on the other hand, you can slap a secondary effect such as stun, nausea, blindness, etc on the creature to reduce or eliminate it's combat effectiveness, and increase its vulnerability to the reliable damage dealers in your party (fighters, mainly) or better yet, put it in a position where it's out of the fight until *you* decide to bring it back in (web, tentacles, sleet storm, sleep etc) then you're far better off than just doing some damage to it. Arcane casters are better off in that capacity than using spell slots on damage dealing, IMHO. Why use Melfs for 4d4 damage over 2 rounds, when you could have used Bulls Strength on your fighter and gotten +2 to hit and damage for several minutes on each of his attacks ? Or a web across half the advancing mooks to slow down their approach and let the fighters take out the remainder at will ?
Ash the blackcowl 12-01-04, 07:31 PM	All of the other lesser orb spells use the d8 for there damage. Why is sound d6? Is this an error?
IMarvinTPA 12-01-04, 07:39 PM	One of the discoveries of Energy Substitution/Admixture and sonic orbs was few creatures have energy resistance sonic or sonic imunity. Thus the energy type is better than the others. The "fix" is to either step the die down one step or exclude sonic as a type to choose from for the feats. Force "energy" takes a damage cap step down. IMarv
Orion_II 12-01-04, 08:31 PM	Arcane casters are better off in that capacity than using spell slots on damage dealing, IMHO. Why use Melfs for 4d4 damage over 2 rounds, when you could have used Bulls Strength on your fighter and gotten +2 to hit and damage for several minutes on each of his attacks ? Or a web across half the advancing mooks to slow down their approach and let the fighters take out the remainder at will ? I wish my Group's Wizard was as enlightened you are! In our last encounter she tried to use Shockig Grasp on a Barbed Devil, missed, backed up and next turn charged the Devil. :nonono: paid for it with a Scorching Ray that saw one of rays critical, though Back to Orbs vs other spells; Magic Missile: Force Damage(no resistance, good vs incoporeal), Automatic hit, longer range, moderate damage Lesser Orbs: Elemental Damage(resistances) high damage, ranged touch, shorter range Burning Hands: Fire Damage(resistance), Area of Effect, low damage, short range, quick accumulation Shocking Grasp: Melee Touch(if you miss, you can try again), Moderate damage, quick accumulation. My Verdict? each has it's good points. Magic Missile has the best versitility, Shocking Grasp is good early on, Burning Hands is a good low level Area of Attack, and Lesser Orbs have the best damage, but are relatively risky; energy resistance quickly destroys it; the individual elemental d8s easily falls prey to even low level resistance, since it's from each attack, and you need to roll invidiually for each orb.
IMarvinTPA 12-01-04, 08:44 PM	Lesser Orbs have the best damage, but are relatively risky; energy resistance quickly destroys it; the individual elemental d8s easily falls prey to even low level resistance, since it's from each attack, and you need to roll invidiually for each orb. You're confusing the new orbs with the old orbs. The new ones have only 1 orb ever. So the full 5d8 is one orb of damage for Resist Energy. Although Resist 30 at its highest will block nearly all of the damage. 5d8 caps out at 40. IMarv
Heron_Marked_Blade 12-01-04, 08:55 PM	the individual elemental d8s easily falls prey to even low level resistance, since it's from each attack, and you need to roll invidiually for each orb.I may be misunderstanding you here, but if you're saying that a creature with Acid Resistance 5 who is struck by a lesser orb of acid cast by a 9th-level wizard (5d8 damage) gets to apply 5 points of acid resistance to each of those d8s, you are incorrect. You would be correct if the spell created five little orbs, each dealing 1d8 acid damage, but you've just got one orb that deals 5d8 damage. Therefore acid resistance applies only once to that orb. If I misunderstood you, ignore me. :D Edit: Darn you, Marv. You stole my thunder! That's what I get for warming up pizza in the middle of a post..... ;)
Orion_II 12-01-04, 09:24 PM	:embarrass Sorry, I guess I misinterpreted that new part(one orb); I figured it was the same as Blood & Tome, since many of these spells are the very similar to thier original printings. (some of them are exactly the same, or worse reprinted with different wording in different places *coughs* bolt of glory!) However, my point about risk still holds true; the average damage for the orbs are 22.5 at max (I never take max damage as a personal rule; the odds of max damage, especially on spells are slim), meaning most things with a resistance will cut that damage to 12.5 if you hit (Average Resistance is 10). That, along with the all-or-nothing attack roll, still can make the spell risky by comparison to the others. Ol' reliable Magic Missile always hits(barring shield & items with shield), Shocking Grasp can be tried again (and you can't charge with the Lesser Orbs), and Buring Hands hits an area. Each has it's use, catered for different tastes (though Shocking Grasp tends to get dumped at high levels)
[GSV] Kirstar 12-02-04, 03:41 AM	Chromatic Orb was first published in the 1e Unearthed Arcana, to give the under-powered illusionist some firepower (along with a bunch of other useful spells, like Phantasmal Armor, the precursor of our Mage Armor). The balancing factor of Chromatic Orb was its material component. A gem of the appropriate type (or a diamond) worth at least 50 GP. Not many casters willing to blow that kind of cash to be an archer for a couple rounds. Especially at higher levels, when you have better spells with cheap or free material components. and the fact that a first level spell if cast at 11th or 12th level was dave or be dead, pass and be paralysed..... also I said unbalenced since 2nd ed. in 1st ed I had no problem with it.
cwslyclgh 12-02-04, 04:11 AM	also I said unbalenced since 2nd ed. in 1st ed I had no problem with it. it would be hard to have a problem with chromatic orbs balance in 1e, since it didn't exist yet... it first appeared in the Complete Wizards Handbook, well after 2e was underway. ;)
Orion_II 12-02-04, 08:29 AM	It's interesting to note that the good people at Black Isle created a new version of Chromatic Orb in their Icewind Dale series. Since Icewind Dale II is 3.0, we could update it to 3.5. Unfortunately, since I don't have the manual on me at the moment, I'll have to get it to you in a later post. I do know for sure that it was a 1st level evocation spell that at mid-to high levels dealt a small amount of damage (about 2d6 or so) and could cause Paralysis. It had a Reflex save to Negate. (Obviously we'd put in the "Save per round" bit from Hold Person in 3.5) Since its a 1st level spell, saving at mid to high levels would be a breeze, so the spell was fairly risky (indeed, my Wizard and my Sorcerer often found themselves casting it multiple times to neutralize a foe). I'll get the stats posted here so we can look at the spell relative to the times.
Iron Chef Vastrox 12-02-04, 01:34 PM	Kirstar']and the fact that a first level spell if cast at 11th or 12th level was dave or be dead... Well, thank God I always daved, then. :mymy:
Rundor The Mighty 12-02-04, 01:36 PM	Yah dave is a great guy!
Veomyr 12-02-04, 01:39 PM	I hate those "dave or die" spells.
HeavenShallBurn 12-02-04, 02:05 PM	I have to admit, that these Orb spells on the one hand sound fine (alone), but on the other look a bit powerful with metamagic. For example these Orb spells with a twin spell feat. A lvl 15 Wizard (a Sorcerer can do this at lvl 16.) can shoot a splited cold orb for 30d6 damage, no save, no SR (but needs to hit 2 ranged touch attacks) and maybe even blinds the target for 1 round. So you spend a level 8 Spell slot for 30d6 without SR and saves but and furthermore a blinding effect for 1 round. This beats polar ray too much, imo. Polar ray, a lvl 8 spell, that does 1d6 / level (15d6 or 16d6 at those levels), neither allows a save, but does allow SR ! It has got the same range, the same elemant, but less damage, not the ability blind creatures and chance of not affecting the targeted creature due to spell resistance. A twined fire orb can even nearly mess with meteor swarm, a level 9th. level spell. Btw. Since Orb spells allow neither save nor SR, they can affect constructs, right ?
eRaz0r 12-02-04, 05:41 PM	Indeed - however this merely reveals that Polar Ray is a pathetic spell. Polar Ray : 8th level. One target you must hit with ranged touch attack, Close Range, Direct Damage, No status effects, damage caps at 25d6, SR applies. Cone of Cold : 5th level All targets in a 60' cone, 60' range, Direct damage (reflex save for 1/2 ), no status effects, damage caps at 15d6, SR applies So for 3 spell levels you get an extra 10d6 damage cap, and a slightly longer range. For that you give up multiple targets (the reflex save and the ranged touch attack cancel out). No, Polar Ray is universally derided as one of the worst 8th level spells available. Check out Disintegrate at 6th level for another comparison, or perhaps Trap The Soul. If we're comparing metamagic'd spells, lets take Extended Evards Black tentacles. For a measly 5th level slot I can hold in place everyone in a 20' radius spread for 2 rounds per level (which is 20 rounds at caster level 10) and each one of them is going to take 1d6+4 damage each round. That's 20d6+80 damage ! No save, no SR. It doesn't really compare, because each round they get to try and escape, but you get what I'm saying. Your example really hilights the problems with Twin Spell and Polar Ray, not the Orbs themselves...
Iron Chef Vastrox 12-02-04, 06:10 PM	High-level Evocations like Polar Ray, Delayed Blast Fireball, and Meteor Swarm are, in my opinion, very poorly designed. Compared to save-or-die or draining spells, direct-damage evocations just don't do enough to make them useful. Anything that improved such spells would have to bring them up to par before it could break them.
AnujaShadow 12-02-04, 06:40 PM	you keep on talking about Evard's Black Tentacles being so great...let's just assume your facing something that has other modes of movement besides walking...it's going to be useless. As a DM, I designed a BBEG with the Winged Template. The only time the BBEG will come close to the ground is to "touch" you. Remember, not everything walks. Oh, and what do you do if something manages to break free of the grapple? it's not a guaranteed damage, whereas the Orbs are, because NO SR, NO save
Iron Chef Vastrox 12-02-04, 06:56 PM	Fewer things have the ability to fly than have energy resistance.
Escef 12-04-04, 08:22 AM	it would be hard to have a problem with chromatic orbs balance in 1e, since it didn't exist yet... it first appeared in the Complete Wizards Handbook, well after 2e was underway. ;) You did't read my post, did you? Chromatic Orb was first published in the 1e Unearthed Arcana Chromatic Orb was around in 1e, I used it. Learn your history, punk! ;) And as for also I said unbalenced since 2nd ed. in 1st ed I had no problem with it. That's funny, since I don't seem to recall any major differences betwixt its 1e and 2e incarnations.
Soulmage 12-04-04, 05:34 PM	it would be hard to have a problem with chromatic orbs balance in 1e, since it didn't exist yet... it first appeared in the Complete Wizards Handbook, well after 2e was underway. ;) Bzzzzzzt. Wrong! Chromatic Orb (as has already been mentioned) first appeared in the ORIGINAL Unearthed Arcana circa 1983/1984. Here's another tidbit for you, the original UA probably had the worst binding of any TSR/WotC/WotC-Hasbro D&D book ever published. It could reliably be expected to fall apart in short order. Just about any copy you find today will have a destroyed spine. Had a great pic on the cover though and a lot of great content. So. . . if you're going to offer opinions on previous editions, make sure you know what the hell you're talking about.
cwslyclgh 12-05-04, 01:41 AM	I have the 1e Unearthed Arcana (in good shape I might add)... and I checked it before I made my post... I simply forgot to check the Illusionist spell list... because it frankly never occured to me that it might be an illusionist only spell. That's funny, since I don't seem to recall any major differences betwixt its 1e and 2e incarnations.the only difference I can tell is the color listed for the orbs by level.
ssvegeta555 12-05-04, 04:13 AM	All of the other lesser orb spells use the d8 for there damage. Why is sound d6? Is this an error? Sonic damage is the least resisted energy in the game. Not very monsters have resistence to it, and only a select few (1 or 2) have imminuty to it. psionics handles the situiation as well, with every die of damage results -1 damage to the final result.