concentration & combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

concentration & combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Redmoon
01-03-07, 10:26 PM This may be because I'm running on only a few hours sleep, but, I can't seem to recall what to do in this case, and I'm hoping someone could point out a rule I'm missing somewhere-

Specifically, the question was brought up about a weave listed in the Wheel of Time RPG. There's a weave(read: spell) that creates a sword made out of fire that the spellcaster can then attack with. But, the duration is Concentration.

What kind of concentration check is required for a character to be able to maintain concentration on a spell(or psionic power!), and still make an attack? I don't remember seeing anywhere that a check is required, but, attacking someone while concentrating on a spell seems to me that it would be at least a vigorous motion.
I was thinking about a psion who would manifest Control Body to immobilize a foe, then attack him while immobilized. So, is a specific check required for the attack to not break concentration?
CantripN
01-03-07, 10:31 PM Concentrating on a spell already in place is a Standard Action.
Only roll Concentration in situations you normally would while casting a spell, except that Concentration doesn't provoke an AOO.
Redmoon
01-03-07, 10:45 PM So.. By that, you could cast a spell, and maintain concentration in a full-blown combat, as long as you don't take damage? I had never really thought about this before, because I've never had a player play a gish character.
CantripN
01-03-07, 11:09 PM So.. By that, you could cast a spell, and maintain concentration in a full-blown combat, as long as you don't take damage? I had never really thought about this before, because I've never had a player play a gish character.

Unless you're riding a Horse or something, yes.
Shadowfax7
01-04-07, 10:21 AM However, would this affect a "weave" ??

From the 3.5 SRD:

Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

In this case you couldn't concentrate on the spell (since the duration is concentration) and attack with the fire sword in the same round because attacking would be a standard action too.
Redmoon
01-04-07, 10:38 AM Thanks Shadowfax- that must be why it was sticking in my craw.

The Wheel Of Time RPG is a Wizards of the Coast book that is 3.0 compatible. The term "weave" is substituted for spell simply for flavor, because the spells are called weaves in te WOT books, but they are the same thing, and work the same way. (The channelers in the WOt RPG are essentially sorcerers with a broader spell list, and they must take feats in order to make their own spell list)

So, in that case, it appears that WotC made a mistake here.. I wonder if there's errata somewhere on how to handle Fiery Sword.
WotC doesn't even have the Wheel of Time contract anymore, so we don't even have a board for it here. Anyone know of a board for the WOT RPG? Maybe I could see how other DMs handled this..
Merestil Haye
01-04-07, 03:27 PM Specifically, the question was brought up about a weave listed in the Wheel of Time RPG. There's a weave(read: spell) that creates a sword made out of fire that the spellcaster can then attack with. But, the duration is Concentration.Firstly, concentrating to maintain a weave is a full-round action not a standard action. (See the tables on page 138.)

Secondly, the text of the weave makes it clear that the primary function is to cut through objects, not be used as a weapon. The Effect is "Creates a cutting torch out of a handheld implement." However, it can be directed against a creature with a touch attack. This seems (to me) to make it like a touch spell. I'd suggest adjudicating this use of the weave in the same way as a touch spell - it can be cast and an attack made in the same round. If the caster maintains concentration in future rounds, he has taken a full-round action and cannot attack; however he could use the flame to make AoOs.

Lastly, remember that it is possible to tie off weaves; thus the caster could do that and attack freely in future rounds. (As an aside remember the weave can be cast at first level, and can therefore be cast even if the caster has run out of weave slots. At risk if you're a man, of course.)
Redmoon
01-04-07, 04:46 PM The weave in question is Fiery Sword (pg. 173, top right), not Blade of Fire.

Also, I found the (unofficial) FAQ at callofthehorn.com, which was made by Charles Ryan, the head designer of the WOT RPG.

Blade of Fire, Fiery Sword, Tool of Air, and Wand of Fire all seem to be useless if a channeler doesn’t have the Tie Off Weave feat, due to the fact that concentrating on a weave is a full round action. Can a channeler, for example, attack with a Fiery Sword if she doesn’t tie it off?

To concentrate on a weave while attacking, the channeler must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + casting level).

And, it is possible to tie off weaves, but it takes a feat to do so. Plus, you're stuck with that weave until the knot unravels, or you have to take a (homebrew, with various versions of it around) feat to slice the knot. If you read WOT, you'll remember channelers cautioning other channelers against untieing weaves, as it's very dangerous.
Merestil Haye
01-04-07, 05:55 PM The weave in question is Fiery Sword (pg. 173, top right), not Blade of Fire.

Also, I found the (unofficial) FAQ at callofthehorn.com, which was made by Charles Ryan, the head designer of the WOT RPG.Blade of Fire, Fiery Sword, Tool of Air, and Wand of Fire all seem to be useless if a channeler doesn’t have the Tie Off Weave feat, due to the fact that concentrating on a weave is a full round action. Can a channeler, for example, attack with a Fiery Sword if she doesn’t tie it off?

To concentrate on a weave while attacking, the channeler must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + casting level).Ah, ok. Been a long time since I read the book.

If the weave's purpose is to create a weapon, I'd allow the Concentration check to use in combat, and incorporate it into the text of the weave. If the weave is not creating a weapon (Blade of Fire for example) then I wouldn't allow a Concentration check to continue using in combat. The FAQ tells us designer's intent, but I really don't think that this should be a general precedent. Guess I'll just have to houserule.

And, it is possible to tie off weaves, but it takes a feat to do so. Plus, you're stuck with that weave until the knot unravels, or you have to take a (homebrew, with various versions of it around) feat to slice the knot. If you read WOT, you'll remember channelers cautioning other channelers against untieing weaves, as it's very dangerous.I do remember that it takes a feat. I also remember that the Aiel retained the knowledge of untying weaves, and Elayne learned how to from watching Aviendha.
Redmoon
01-04-07, 06:07 PM While there is no feat for it in the WOT RPG (although, i'm not sure if that appeared in the series before or after the RPG was made...), i'd definitely say it requires a feat. It's something that only a handful of channelers are capable of, and it takes time & effort, as well as being something that must be taught to be able to be done.
If not a feat, I'd say it should be a skill.
Merestil Haye
01-04-07, 07:01 PM While there is no feat for it in the WOT RPG (although, i'm not sure if that appeared in the series before or after the RPG was made...), i'd definitely say it requires a feat. It's something that only a handful of channelers are capable of, and it takes time & effort, as well as being something that must be taught to be able to be done.
If not a feat, I'd say it should be a skill.I'v sent you a PM with my reply to avoid continuing this slightly offtopic conversation on-boards.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Redmoon 01-03-07, 10:26 PM	This may be because I'm running on only a few hours sleep, but, I can't seem to recall what to do in this case, and I'm hoping someone could point out a rule I'm missing somewhere- Specifically, the question was brought up about a weave listed in the Wheel of Time RPG. There's a weave(read: spell) that creates a sword made out of fire that the spellcaster can then attack with. But, the duration is Concentration. What kind of concentration check is required for a character to be able to maintain concentration on a spell(or psionic power!), and still make an attack? I don't remember seeing anywhere that a check is required, but, attacking someone while concentrating on a spell seems to me that it would be at least a vigorous motion. I was thinking about a psion who would manifest Control Body to immobilize a foe, then attack him while immobilized. So, is a specific check required for the attack to not break concentration?
CantripN 01-03-07, 10:31 PM	Concentrating on a spell already in place is a Standard Action. Only roll Concentration in situations you normally would while casting a spell, except that Concentration doesn't provoke an AOO.
Redmoon 01-03-07, 10:45 PM	So.. By that, you could cast a spell, and maintain concentration in a full-blown combat, as long as you don't take damage? I had never really thought about this before, because I've never had a player play a gish character.
CantripN 01-03-07, 11:09 PM	So.. By that, you could cast a spell, and maintain concentration in a full-blown combat, as long as you don't take damage? I had never really thought about this before, because I've never had a player play a gish character. Unless you're riding a Horse or something, yes.
Shadowfax7 01-04-07, 10:21 AM	However, would this affect a "weave" ?? From the 3.5 SRD: Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. In this case you couldn't concentrate on the spell (since the duration is concentration) and attack with the fire sword in the same round because attacking would be a standard action too.
Redmoon 01-04-07, 10:38 AM	Thanks Shadowfax- that must be why it was sticking in my craw. The Wheel Of Time RPG is a Wizards of the Coast book that is 3.0 compatible. The term "weave" is substituted for spell simply for flavor, because the spells are called weaves in te WOT books, but they are the same thing, and work the same way. (The channelers in the WOt RPG are essentially sorcerers with a broader spell list, and they must take feats in order to make their own spell list) So, in that case, it appears that WotC made a mistake here.. I wonder if there's errata somewhere on how to handle Fiery Sword. WotC doesn't even have the Wheel of Time contract anymore, so we don't even have a board for it here. Anyone know of a board for the WOT RPG? Maybe I could see how other DMs handled this..
Merestil Haye 01-04-07, 03:27 PM	Specifically, the question was brought up about a weave listed in the Wheel of Time RPG. There's a weave(read: spell) that creates a sword made out of fire that the spellcaster can then attack with. But, the duration is Concentration.Firstly, concentrating to maintain a weave is a full-round action not a standard action. (See the tables on page 138.) Secondly, the text of the weave makes it clear that the primary function is to cut through objects, not be used as a weapon. The Effect is "Creates a cutting torch out of a handheld implement." However, it can be directed against a creature with a touch attack. This seems (to me) to make it like a touch spell. I'd suggest adjudicating this use of the weave in the same way as a touch spell - it can be cast and an attack made in the same round. If the caster maintains concentration in future rounds, he has taken a full-round action and cannot attack; however he could use the flame to make AoOs. Lastly, remember that it is possible to tie off weaves; thus the caster could do that and attack freely in future rounds. (As an aside remember the weave can be cast at first level, and can therefore be cast even if the caster has run out of weave slots. At risk if you're a man, of course.)
Redmoon 01-04-07, 04:46 PM	The weave in question is Fiery Sword (pg. 173, top right), not Blade of Fire. Also, I found the (unofficial) FAQ at callofthehorn.com, which was made by Charles Ryan, the head designer of the WOT RPG. Blade of Fire, Fiery Sword, Tool of Air, and Wand of Fire all seem to be useless if a channeler doesn’t have the Tie Off Weave feat, due to the fact that concentrating on a weave is a full round action. Can a channeler, for example, attack with a Fiery Sword if she doesn’t tie it off? To concentrate on a weave while attacking, the channeler must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + casting level). And, it is possible to tie off weaves, but it takes a feat to do so. Plus, you're stuck with that weave until the knot unravels, or you have to take a (homebrew, with various versions of it around) feat to slice the knot. If you read WOT, you'll remember channelers cautioning other channelers against untieing weaves, as it's very dangerous.
Merestil Haye 01-04-07, 05:55 PM	The weave in question is Fiery Sword (pg. 173, top right), not Blade of Fire. Also, I found the (unofficial) FAQ at callofthehorn.com, which was made by Charles Ryan, the head designer of the WOT RPG.Blade of Fire, Fiery Sword, Tool of Air, and Wand of Fire all seem to be useless if a channeler doesn’t have the Tie Off Weave feat, due to the fact that concentrating on a weave is a full round action. Can a channeler, for example, attack with a Fiery Sword if she doesn’t tie it off? To concentrate on a weave while attacking, the channeler must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + casting level).Ah, ok. Been a long time since I read the book. If the weave's purpose is to create a weapon, I'd allow the Concentration check to use in combat, and incorporate it into the text of the weave. If the weave is not creating a weapon (Blade of Fire for example) then I wouldn't allow a Concentration check to continue using in combat. The FAQ tells us designer's intent, but I really don't think that this should be a general precedent. Guess I'll just have to houserule. And, it is possible to tie off weaves, but it takes a feat to do so. Plus, you're stuck with that weave until the knot unravels, or you have to take a (homebrew, with various versions of it around) feat to slice the knot. If you read WOT, you'll remember channelers cautioning other channelers against untieing weaves, as it's very dangerous.I do remember that it takes a feat. I also remember that the Aiel retained the knowledge of untying weaves, and Elayne learned how to from watching Aviendha.
Redmoon 01-04-07, 06:07 PM	While there is no feat for it in the WOT RPG (although, i'm not sure if that appeared in the series before or after the RPG was made...), i'd definitely say it requires a feat. It's something that only a handful of channelers are capable of, and it takes time & effort, as well as being something that must be taught to be able to be done. If not a feat, I'd say it should be a skill.
Merestil Haye 01-04-07, 07:01 PM	While there is no feat for it in the WOT RPG (although, i'm not sure if that appeared in the series before or after the RPG was made...), i'd definitely say it requires a feat. It's something that only a handful of channelers are capable of, and it takes time & effort, as well as being something that must be taught to be able to be done. If not a feat, I'd say it should be a skill.I'v sent you a PM with my reply to avoid continuing this slightly offtopic conversation on-boards.