Concentration Checks and Magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Concentration Checks and Magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MrSpaceBear
07-29-06, 03:38 AM I have a question. Is is necessary for a wizard who is not in combat, but near combat (10ft) and not being thretened, to be made to take a concentration check to cast a spell.
My DM reasons that if there is distracting activity nearby that a wizards concetration could be disrupted.

I argue that completeing a spell is as simple swinging a sword and should not require a Con check if the wizard is not even being thretened or injured in any way shape or form.
Rerecros
07-29-06, 03:54 AM No, nearby activity that is not shaking the the ground would not require a concentration check.
MrSpaceBear
07-29-06, 04:01 AM Ok. But the DM's arguement is that the discription of the act of casting a spell says that concentration is required ( even though He cant point out a sentance that says a concentration CHECK is required)

Perhapse some one could point out a sentance in the rule book that clearly states that a concentration check is not required if combat is going on close by.
Jerks
07-29-06, 04:09 AM Proving negatives can be quite difficult. The Concentration skills gives a fairly extensive list of actions and situations that require the caster to make a concentration check. Have him reread that list and then make his ruling from that.

If he's still unsure, go back and read the magic section on spellcasting.
MrSpaceBear
07-29-06, 04:33 AM Thats the thing. Hes read that list but because it says that u must concentrate he feels a check is in order. But even in the discriptions of PC's casting spells around or into combat there is no metnion of Concentration checks...

Blast... i know im right....
Lord Lorac Silvanos
07-29-06, 05:03 AM What was the concentration DC?
Anything above DC (0 + Spell Level) seems unreasonable if this is just "ordinary" combat.
runestar
07-29-06, 06:55 AM CONCENTRATION
To cast a spell, you must concentrate. If something interrupts your concentration while you’re casting, you must make a Concentration check or lose the spell. The more distracting the interruption and the higher the level of the spell you are trying to cast, the higher the DC is. If you fail the check, you lose the spell just as if you had cast it to no effect.
Injury: If while trying to cast a spell you take damage, you must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + points of damage taken + the level of the spell you’re casting). If you fail the check, you lose the spell without effect. The interrupting event strikes during spellcasting if it comes between when you start and when you complete a spell (for a spell with a casting time of 1 full round or more) or if it comes in response to your casting the spell (such as an attack of opportunity provoked by the spell or a contingent attack, such as a readied action).
If you are taking continuous damage half the damage is considered to take place while you are casting a spell. You must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + 1/2 the damage that the continuous source last dealt + the level of the spell you’re casting). If the last damage dealt was the last damage that the effect could deal then the damage is over, and it does not distract you.
Repeated damage does not count as continuous damage.
Spell: If you are affected by a spell while attempting to cast a spell of your own, you must make a Concentration check or lose the spell you are casting. If the spell affecting you deals damage, the DC is 10 + points of damage + the level of the spell you’re casting.
If the spell interferes with you or distracts you in some other way, the DC is the spell’s saving throw DC + the level of the spell you’re casting. For a spell with no saving throw, it’s the DC that the spell’s saving throw would have if a save were allowed.
Grappling or Pinned: The only spells you can cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand. Even so, you must make a Concentration check (DC 20 + the level of the spell you’re casting) or lose the spell.
Vigorous Motion: If you are riding on a moving mount, taking a bouncy ride in a wagon, on a small boat in rough water, below-decks in a storm-tossed ship, or simply being jostled in a similar fashion, you must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + the level of the spell you’re casting) or lose the spell.
Violent Motion: If you are on a galloping horse, taking a very rough ride in a wagon, on a small boat in rapids or in a storm, on deck in a storm-tossed ship, or being tossed roughly about in a similar fashion, you must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the level of the spell you’re casting) or lose the spell.
Violent Weather: You must make a Concentration check if you try to cast a spell in violent weather. If you are in a high wind carrying blinding rain or sleet, the DC is 5 + the level of the spell you’re casting. If you are in wind-driven hail, dust, or debris, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell you’re casting. In either case, you lose the spell if you fail the Concentration check. If the weather is caused by a spell, use the rules in the Spell subsection above.
Casting Defensively: If you want to cast a spell without provoking any attacks of opportunity, you must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the level of the spell you’re casting) to succeed. You lose the spell if you fail.
Entangled: If you want to cast a spell while entangled in a net or by a tanglefoot bag or while you’re affected by a spell with similar effects, you must make a DC 15 Concentration check to cast the spell. You lose the spell if you fail.

The aforemention scenario does not fall into any of the above situations, so I think we can assume that the average wizard is able to cast spells even under minor distractions. Or in the very least, it should be a very simple check which your mage should have no chance of failing, even on a one. If so, then just give it to him. :D
Nom
07-29-06, 10:37 AM A Concentration check is not required to concentrate. It is required to maintain concentration when certain nasty things happen to you, as listed in the Concentration skill. Being attacked while concentrating does not provoke a Concentration check. Being damaged while concentrating does.
DrMorganes
07-29-06, 10:49 AM Nicely summarized, Nom!
BW0222
07-29-06, 12:59 PM Nom,

Well said.

I'll also add that nothing says you even need to concentrate when casting while threatened. You could have a big ogre next to you and just cast a spell. If you do not cast defensively (i.e. you let your guard down), he gets a free attack at you, but that doesn't mean that you are concentrating any more than in a quiet room in your tower. If the ogre hits -- then you need to concentrate -- otherwise, don't worry about it.
Nom
07-29-06, 06:58 PM I'll also add that nothing says you even need to concentrate when casting while threatened. You could have a big ogre next to you and just cast a spell. If you do not cast defensively (i.e. you let your guard down), he gets a free attack at you, but that doesn't mean that you are concentrating any more than in a quiet room in your tower. If the ogre hits -- then you need to concentrate -- otherwise, don't worry about it.Uh, this is exactly the confusion that I'm arguing against. You do need to concentrate to cast a spell: "You must concentrate to cast a spell" (PH pg 140). It is exactly this misunderstanding of the difference between concentration and Concentration checks that causes problems such as discussed by the OP.

Concentration checks are generally reactive. In the same way that a Str/Dex check lets you remain standing when someone tries to trip you, a Concentration check lets you keep concetrating when something interrupts you.
MrSpaceBear
07-29-06, 07:58 PM Well i guess that helps a little bit. Thanks guys! So from what I understand, to concentrate no check is required even if im thretened, only if I get sluged by a dragons tail do I have to make the check.....right?
Nom
07-29-06, 08:05 PM Well i guess that helps a little bit. Thanks guys! So from what I understand, to concentrate no check is required even if im thretened, only if I get sluged by a dragons tail do I have to make the check.....right?Yes. A Concentration check allows you to keep concentrating if one of the nasty things listed in the Concentration skill happens. Being threatend is not one of those things.

Note, however, that starting concentrating (concentrating, not making a Concentration check) while being threatened provokes an AoO.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MrSpaceBear 07-29-06, 03:38 AM	I have a question. Is is necessary for a wizard who is not in combat, but near combat (10ft) and not being thretened, to be made to take a concentration check to cast a spell. My DM reasons that if there is distracting activity nearby that a wizards concetration could be disrupted. I argue that completeing a spell is as simple swinging a sword and should not require a Con check if the wizard is not even being thretened or injured in any way shape or form.
Rerecros 07-29-06, 03:54 AM	No, nearby activity that is not shaking the the ground would not require a concentration check.
MrSpaceBear 07-29-06, 04:01 AM	Ok. But the DM's arguement is that the discription of the act of casting a spell says that concentration is required ( even though He cant point out a sentance that says a concentration CHECK is required) Perhapse some one could point out a sentance in the rule book that clearly states that a concentration check is not required if combat is going on close by.
Jerks 07-29-06, 04:09 AM	Proving negatives can be quite difficult. The Concentration skills gives a fairly extensive list of actions and situations that require the caster to make a concentration check. Have him reread that list and then make his ruling from that. If he's still unsure, go back and read the magic section on spellcasting.
MrSpaceBear 07-29-06, 04:33 AM	Thats the thing. Hes read that list but because it says that u must concentrate he feels a check is in order. But even in the discriptions of PC's casting spells around or into combat there is no metnion of Concentration checks... Blast... i know im right....
Lord Lorac Silvanos 07-29-06, 05:03 AM	What was the concentration DC? Anything above DC (0 + Spell Level) seems unreasonable if this is just "ordinary" combat.
runestar 07-29-06, 06:55 AM	CONCENTRATION To cast a spell, you must concentrate. If something interrupts your concentration while you’re casting, you must make a Concentration check or lose the spell. The more distracting the interruption and the higher the level of the spell you are trying to cast, the higher the DC is. If you fail the check, you lose the spell just as if you had cast it to no effect. Injury: If while trying to cast a spell you take damage, you must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + points of damage taken + the level of the spell you’re casting). If you fail the check, you lose the spell without effect. The interrupting event strikes during spellcasting if it comes between when you start and when you complete a spell (for a spell with a casting time of 1 full round or more) or if it comes in response to your casting the spell (such as an attack of opportunity provoked by the spell or a contingent attack, such as a readied action). If you are taking continuous damage half the damage is considered to take place while you are casting a spell. You must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + 1/2 the damage that the continuous source last dealt + the level of the spell you’re casting). If the last damage dealt was the last damage that the effect could deal then the damage is over, and it does not distract you. Repeated damage does not count as continuous damage. Spell: If you are affected by a spell while attempting to cast a spell of your own, you must make a Concentration check or lose the spell you are casting. If the spell affecting you deals damage, the DC is 10 + points of damage + the level of the spell you’re casting. If the spell interferes with you or distracts you in some other way, the DC is the spell’s saving throw DC + the level of the spell you’re casting. For a spell with no saving throw, it’s the DC that the spell’s saving throw would have if a save were allowed. Grappling or Pinned: The only spells you can cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand. Even so, you must make a Concentration check (DC 20 + the level of the spell you’re casting) or lose the spell. Vigorous Motion: If you are riding on a moving mount, taking a bouncy ride in a wagon, on a small boat in rough water, below-decks in a storm-tossed ship, or simply being jostled in a similar fashion, you must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + the level of the spell you’re casting) or lose the spell. Violent Motion: If you are on a galloping horse, taking a very rough ride in a wagon, on a small boat in rapids or in a storm, on deck in a storm-tossed ship, or being tossed roughly about in a similar fashion, you must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the level of the spell you’re casting) or lose the spell. Violent Weather: You must make a Concentration check if you try to cast a spell in violent weather. If you are in a high wind carrying blinding rain or sleet, the DC is 5 + the level of the spell you’re casting. If you are in wind-driven hail, dust, or debris, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell you’re casting. In either case, you lose the spell if you fail the Concentration check. If the weather is caused by a spell, use the rules in the Spell subsection above. Casting Defensively: If you want to cast a spell without provoking any attacks of opportunity, you must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the level of the spell you’re casting) to succeed. You lose the spell if you fail. Entangled: If you want to cast a spell while entangled in a net or by a tanglefoot bag or while you’re affected by a spell with similar effects, you must make a DC 15 Concentration check to cast the spell. You lose the spell if you fail. The aforemention scenario does not fall into any of the above situations, so I think we can assume that the average wizard is able to cast spells even under minor distractions. Or in the very least, it should be a very simple check which your mage should have no chance of failing, even on a one. If so, then just give it to him. :D
Nom 07-29-06, 10:37 AM	A Concentration check is not required to concentrate. It is required to maintain concentration when certain nasty things happen to you, as listed in the Concentration skill. Being attacked while concentrating does not provoke a Concentration check. Being damaged while concentrating does.
DrMorganes 07-29-06, 10:49 AM	Nicely summarized, Nom!
BW0222 07-29-06, 12:59 PM	Nom, Well said. I'll also add that nothing says you even need to concentrate when casting while threatened. You could have a big ogre next to you and just cast a spell. If you do not cast defensively (i.e. you let your guard down), he gets a free attack at you, but that doesn't mean that you are concentrating any more than in a quiet room in your tower. If the ogre hits -- then you need to concentrate -- otherwise, don't worry about it.
Nom 07-29-06, 06:58 PM	I'll also add that nothing says you even need to concentrate when casting while threatened. You could have a big ogre next to you and just cast a spell. If you do not cast defensively (i.e. you let your guard down), he gets a free attack at you, but that doesn't mean that you are concentrating any more than in a quiet room in your tower. If the ogre hits -- then you need to concentrate -- otherwise, don't worry about it.Uh, this is exactly the confusion that I'm arguing against. You do need to concentrate to cast a spell: "You must concentrate to cast a spell" (PH pg 140). It is exactly this misunderstanding of the difference between concentration and Concentration checks that causes problems such as discussed by the OP. Concentration checks are generally reactive. In the same way that a Str/Dex check lets you remain standing when someone tries to trip you, a Concentration check lets you keep concetrating when something interrupts you.
MrSpaceBear 07-29-06, 07:58 PM	Well i guess that helps a little bit. Thanks guys! So from what I understand, to concentrate no check is required even if im thretened, only if I get sluged by a dragons tail do I have to make the check.....right?
Nom 07-29-06, 08:05 PM	Well i guess that helps a little bit. Thanks guys! So from what I understand, to concentrate no check is required even if im thretened, only if I get sluged by a dragons tail do I have to make the check.....right?Yes. A Concentration check allows you to keep concentrating if one of the nasty things listed in the Concentration skill happens. Being threatend is not one of those things. Note, however, that starting concentrating (concentrating, not making a Concentration check) while being threatened provokes an AoO.