Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Abalester 05-22-06, 07:26 PM	Hey guys and gals, I have a question for you all to debate on. Recently, my DM has been trying to outlaw the spell "Knock" because he says it's far too powerful for it's own unfair good. He says that if I were to select that spell, he would have to make all doors huge or with 10 locks (exageration). Could you guys give me any ideas on what alternate courses he could take to allow me to use the spell and he wouldn't have to make the doors so exagerated that we would always know that there was something like a boss or hordes of treasure behind it? Thanks :)
Archtyrant Terevoth 05-22-06, 07:41 PM	Well, I'm not sure what your DM expects locks to do. Locks on their own shouldn't be much of a problem for your party to get through. A good rogue can pick them by taking 20 anyway, so they're not a big deal. Keep in mind that knock doesn't remove traps, nor does it help neutralize guards. Also, there's no indication of how much sound knock makes, but if it's opening all sorts of locks and removing bars and chains on a door, we can assume it alerts anyone at least inside the room that you're opening.
smrtgmp 05-22-06, 08:19 PM	And thats coming from member # 5 of the Nerf Magic Foundation. ;) I agree. There's nothing wrong with knock. You're using a spell (which, at least on a daily basis, is a non-renewable resource) to bypass a simple mundane obsticle. As mentioned by AT, any decent rogue could do the same thing without any limit (other than time).
Abalester 05-22-06, 08:27 PM	Awesome, but what is the Nerf Magic Foundation? I'm guessing that it's quite important.
runestar 05-22-06, 10:29 PM	A mage could just use ray of frost to freeze the lock and bash the door open. Plus, knock does not disarm any traps in the door, so unless the wizard has other spell protections on him, he will still be in danger. Also, what's so hard about simply putting a rubber door stop on the other side of the door? Even with all the locks undone, you still won't be able to force the door open. Your dm is thinking way too hard on thinking of how to screw you over. ;)
TheCobra 05-22-06, 10:55 PM	A good rogue can pick them by taking 20 anyway, so they're not a big deal. That depends on the lock. At level three, the level a wizard could pick up knock, the rogue might not even be able to manage a 30. She certainly won't be able to make the DC 40 check required to open an amazing lock.
Reversefigure4 05-22-06, 11:34 PM	There's numerous ways through a door, although Knock is one of the better ones. A Rogue can pick the lock, and anyone with enough strength can simply bash it down. And of course, they can do that all day long, while you are limited to how many Knocks you can prepare a day. If the DM doesn't make it obvious exactly which door contains the Ultimate Treasure Room (you know, the one where the door is made of solid gold and ringed with diamonds), how are you going to know where to use it? And of course, when you take Knock, that's another spell that you can't take in it's place. Knock is very useful, but hardly overpowered.
Talkkno 05-23-06, 12:58 AM	That depends on the lock. At level three, the level a wizard could pick up knock, the rogue might not even be able to manage a 30. She certainly won't be able to make the DC 40 check required to open an amazing lock. I belive you mean level 4 and besides, if you cant open a lock, just smash the thing.
runestar 05-23-06, 01:38 AM	I belive you mean level 4 and besides, if you cant open a lock, just smash the thing. Well, there's always thematic spellcasting... :P