Cone spell areas in 3D [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cone spell areas in 3D [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BeauJest
05-30-07, 11:16 AM The rules don't explicited state that a cone extends in 3-D, but how people adjudicate spells cast off-plane. I've got a few encounters with flying & levitating creatures and this will most certianly come up.
Salla
05-30-07, 11:22 AM Very carefully. ;)

If there's just one real target involved, and none of your allies are near it, then it just becomes a matter of 'is it within 30'. When you're firing a cone off-'level' into a cluster, though, things get dicey. You'll probably just have to use your best judgement.
tarkin
05-30-07, 11:36 AM Cones are expressely stated as 3d as per RAW.

That is what the word CONE means.

If they meant an equilitaeral triangle, they would have said "equilateral triangle"

Ruling they are 2d is a House Rule.

Yes, most of the time they are talked about as being 2d, because players generally are not flying etc.

There is no real difference between 10ft north and 10 ft up from my position and 10 ft north and 10ft west of my position. Both are about 15 ft away.

10 ft north, 10 ft west, 10ft up is about the 15 ft away
If someone is 10ft north, 10ft west and 15ft up, it becomes 'about 15ft NW and about 15 ft up', which becomes about 20ft away.

Math rule is square root of (x ^2+y^2+z^2 ) = total distance away.

Actually numbers are: 10N and 10W (or up) = 14.14 ft away

10 N, 10 W, 10 Up = 17.32 ft away

10N, 10 W and 15 UP = 20.615 ft
-----

The cone it self is centered on a target, and is a right angle.

A cone of 60 ft (Cone of Cold) starts out at your hand and ends up 60 ft north, 60 ft west and 60ft up.

15 ft away from you it is exactly 15ft up. It is at that same height 15ft to the north (3 squares), 15ft to the west (3 squares) and 15 ft to the North-West (2 squares diagonally)
BeauJest
05-30-07, 11:58 AM Cones are expressely stated as 3d as per RAW.

That is what the word CONE means.

If they meant an equilitaeral triangle, they would have said "equilateral triangle"

Ruling they are 2d is a House Rule.

Yes, most of the time they are talked about as being 2d, because players generally are not flying etc.

Right, when I think CONE I certainly think 3D. I guess the complexities arise with the 3D cartography.

Would you say a typical 20-foot burst is really a sphere as well? In this case, there are distinctions made between spheres and bursts in the spell descriptions. But I think a Fireball is definitely a sphere of flame.
SephDragoon
05-30-07, 12:09 PM Right, an at the same time, we have cylinder spells. A circle on the groud, but going staight up a certain amount. It gets tricky, but itis doable.
Nathreet
05-30-07, 12:23 PM dist.
above/ size
below origin 15 30 60
0 0.0 15.0 30.0 60.0
5 1.9 11.3 27.2 57.7
10 3.8 1.2 22.6 54.5
15 5.7 * 15.5 50.4
20 7.7 * 2.3 45.3
25 9.6 * * 38.9
30 11.5 * * 30.9
35 13.4 * * 20.5
40 15.3 * * 4.7
45 17.2 * * *
* = out of range, no cone effect at this height

Numbers are in feet.
"dist above/below" = how far above or below the target is from the caster
"origin" = where the cone starts. For example, a target 15' above and 5' away horizontally will not be hit by a cone effect, regardless of the cone's size (target is too close horizontally, too far above).
"size" = the cone's effective size in the plane. For example: 15' above the caster, a 30' cone effectively becomes a ~15' "cone" (triangle) originating 5' away from the caster. 40' above the caster, a 60' cone becomes a ~5' cone originating ~15' away from the caster.

Things get more confusing if the caster fires the cone at an angle. Alternatively, you could build 45 degree cones out of paper, and place flying creatures onto stacks of 5' cubes. I'd build half cones instead of full cones, to keep the table from getting in the way. A quick google search should tell you how to build the cones.
Dunamin
05-30-07, 12:26 PM A cone is a three-dimensional form.

Would you say a typical 20-foot burst is really a sphere as well? In this case, there are distinctions made between spheres and bursts in the spell descriptions. But I think a Fireball is definitely a sphere of flame.
The distinction comes in between bursts, spreads and emanations - all of them are generally spherical when there are plenty of space.
Burst, Emanation, or Spread: Most spells that affect an area function as a burst, an emanation, or a spread. In each case, you select the spell’s point of origin and measure its effect from that point.
A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, even including creatures that you can’t see. It can’t affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don’t extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst’s area defines how far from the point of origin the spell’s effect extends.
An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Most emanations are cones or spheres.
A spread spell spreads out like a burst but can turn corners. You select the point of origin, and the spell spreads out a given distance in all directions. Figure the area the spell effect fills by taking into account any turns the spell effect takes.

In other words:
"Sphere" and "cone" refers to the shape a spell would take by default.
"Burst, spread and emanation" refers to how the shape of the spell may be modified by obstructions.
Nathreet
05-30-07, 12:38 PM spheres

Circle Radius

Sphere Radius
Height 10 20 30 40 50 60
0 10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0
5 8.7 19.4 29.6 39.7 49.7 59.8
10 0.0 17.3 28.3 38.7 49.0 59.2
15 13.2 26.0 37.1 47.7 58.1
20 0.0 22.4 34.6 45.8 56.6
25 16.6 31.2 43.3 54.5
30 0.0 26.5 40.0 52.0
35 19.4 35.7 48.7
40 0.0 30.0 44.7
45 21.8 39.7
50 0.0 33.2
55 24.0
60 0.0
Yokomohoyo
05-31-07, 02:24 AM What I use for "Props" are foam cones, squares, semi-circles and cylinders that you can get at any hobby shop. I use them with the DnD mini's for battle locations, blast areas and line of sight.
Seeker95
05-31-07, 09:25 AM Chiming in that a cone is 3-D. The one in a hundred times this makes a difference in a game is worth knowing it.
Dunamin
05-31-07, 09:35 AM Chiming in that a cone is 3-D. The one in a hundred times this makes a difference in a game is worth knowing it.
3D orientation comes in both in flight and underwater, and flight can be fairly typical during mid and high levels of play, depending on the campaign.

Now that I think about it, this case particularly becomes relevant with many dragon battles.
Mordent_Sage
05-31-07, 09:56 AM Except burning hands. That states in the spell description that it's a thin, fan shaped spray of fire.

Just wanted to confuse things!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BeauJest 05-30-07, 11:16 AM	The rules don't explicited state that a cone extends in 3-D, but how people adjudicate spells cast off-plane. I've got a few encounters with flying & levitating creatures and this will most certianly come up.
Salla 05-30-07, 11:22 AM	Very carefully. ;) If there's just one real target involved, and none of your allies are near it, then it just becomes a matter of 'is it within 30'. When you're firing a cone off-'level' into a cluster, though, things get dicey. You'll probably just have to use your best judgement.
tarkin 05-30-07, 11:36 AM	Cones are expressely stated as 3d as per RAW. That is what the word CONE means. If they meant an equilitaeral triangle, they would have said "equilateral triangle" Ruling they are 2d is a House Rule. Yes, most of the time they are talked about as being 2d, because players generally are not flying etc. There is no real difference between 10ft north and 10 ft up from my position and 10 ft north and 10ft west of my position. Both are about 15 ft away. 10 ft north, 10 ft west, 10ft up is about the 15 ft away If someone is 10ft north, 10ft west and 15ft up, it becomes 'about 15ft NW and about 15 ft up', which becomes about 20ft away. Math rule is square root of (x ^2+y^2+z^2 ) = total distance away. Actually numbers are: 10N and 10W (or up) = 14.14 ft away 10 N, 10 W, 10 Up = 17.32 ft away 10N, 10 W and 15 UP = 20.615 ft ----- The cone it self is centered on a target, and is a right angle. A cone of 60 ft (Cone of Cold) starts out at your hand and ends up 60 ft north, 60 ft west and 60ft up. 15 ft away from you it is exactly 15ft up. It is at that same height 15ft to the north (3 squares), 15ft to the west (3 squares) and 15 ft to the North-West (2 squares diagonally)
BeauJest 05-30-07, 11:58 AM	Cones are expressely stated as 3d as per RAW. That is what the word CONE means. If they meant an equilitaeral triangle, they would have said "equilateral triangle" Ruling they are 2d is a House Rule. Yes, most of the time they are talked about as being 2d, because players generally are not flying etc. Right, when I think CONE I certainly think 3D. I guess the complexities arise with the 3D cartography. Would you say a typical 20-foot burst is really a sphere as well? In this case, there are distinctions made between spheres and bursts in the spell descriptions. But I think a Fireball is definitely a sphere of flame.
SephDragoon 05-30-07, 12:09 PM	Right, an at the same time, we have cylinder spells. A circle on the groud, but going staight up a certain amount. It gets tricky, but itis doable.
Nathreet 05-30-07, 12:23 PM	dist. above/ size below origin 15 30 60 0 0.0 15.0 30.0 60.0 5 1.9 11.3 27.2 57.7 10 3.8 1.2 22.6 54.5 15 5.7 * 15.5 50.4 20 7.7 * 2.3 45.3 25 9.6 * * 38.9 30 11.5 * * 30.9 35 13.4 * * 20.5 40 15.3 * * 4.7 45 17.2 * * * * = out of range, no cone effect at this height Numbers are in feet. "dist above/below" = how far above or below the target is from the caster "origin" = where the cone starts. For example, a target 15' above and 5' away horizontally will not be hit by a cone effect, regardless of the cone's size (target is too close horizontally, too far above). "size" = the cone's effective size in the plane. For example: 15' above the caster, a 30' cone effectively becomes a ~15' "cone" (triangle) originating 5' away from the caster. 40' above the caster, a 60' cone becomes a ~5' cone originating ~15' away from the caster. Things get more confusing if the caster fires the cone at an angle. Alternatively, you could build 45 degree cones out of paper, and place flying creatures onto stacks of 5' cubes. I'd build half cones instead of full cones, to keep the table from getting in the way. A quick google search should tell you how to build the cones.
Dunamin 05-30-07, 12:26 PM	A cone is a three-dimensional form. Would you say a typical 20-foot burst is really a sphere as well? In this case, there are distinctions made between spheres and bursts in the spell descriptions. But I think a Fireball is definitely a sphere of flame. The distinction comes in between bursts, spreads and emanations - all of them are generally spherical when there are plenty of space. Burst, Emanation, or Spread: Most spells that affect an area function as a burst, an emanation, or a spread. In each case, you select the spell’s point of origin and measure its effect from that point. A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, even including creatures that you can’t see. It can’t affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don’t extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst’s area defines how far from the point of origin the spell’s effect extends. An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Most emanations are cones or spheres. A spread spell spreads out like a burst but can turn corners. You select the point of origin, and the spell spreads out a given distance in all directions. Figure the area the spell effect fills by taking into account any turns the spell effect takes. In other words: "Sphere" and "cone" refers to the shape a spell would take by default. "Burst, spread and emanation" refers to how the shape of the spell may be modified by obstructions.
Nathreet 05-30-07, 12:38 PM	spheres Circle Radius Sphere Radius Height 10 20 30 40 50 60 0 10.0 20.0 30.0 40.0 50.0 60.0 5 8.7 19.4 29.6 39.7 49.7 59.8 10 0.0 17.3 28.3 38.7 49.0 59.2 15 13.2 26.0 37.1 47.7 58.1 20 0.0 22.4 34.6 45.8 56.6 25 16.6 31.2 43.3 54.5 30 0.0 26.5 40.0 52.0 35 19.4 35.7 48.7 40 0.0 30.0 44.7 45 21.8 39.7 50 0.0 33.2 55 24.0 60 0.0
Yokomohoyo 05-31-07, 02:24 AM	What I use for "Props" are foam cones, squares, semi-circles and cylinders that you can get at any hobby shop. I use them with the DnD mini's for battle locations, blast areas and line of sight.
Seeker95 05-31-07, 09:25 AM	Chiming in that a cone is 3-D. The one in a hundred times this makes a difference in a game is worth knowing it.
Dunamin 05-31-07, 09:35 AM	Chiming in that a cone is 3-D. The one in a hundred times this makes a difference in a game is worth knowing it. 3D orientation comes in both in flight and underwater, and flight can be fairly typical during mid and high levels of play, depending on the campaign. Now that I think about it, this case particularly becomes relevant with many dragon battles.
Mordent_Sage 05-31-07, 09:56 AM	Except burning hands. That states in the spell description that it's a thin, fan shaped spray of fire. Just wanted to confuse things!