Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kazar 01-20-04, 08:37 AM	I cant seem to find an answer to this question and after 10 hours of searching i figure ill ask all of you to see if anyones heard anything other than just random opinion. The 3.5 rules say that it is against summoned creatures. The 3.0 says summoned and conjured, it also makes a reference to good outsiders and elementals being immune to this.(leading me to believe that by sum and conj, wizards really means outsiders and elements) Also in the module "The Sunless Citadel' released by wizards there is a mephit at one point, under the description of which are the words, and i quote "As an outsider, it cannot touch those under a protection from evil spell." Which seems pretty blunt to me but is after all only in an adventure module, even if one printed by Wizards of the Coast. Thank you for any help you can provide.
Gothic_Demon 01-20-04, 09:26 AM	I think it's a semantic difference. All creatures that are brought in by a spell that doesn't open a gate (eg. gate) are considered summoned. Conjurers now summon creatures, not conjure them. A Summon Monster spell summons a creature to fight for the caster, it is considered summoned. The reason it states summoned is that casting Pro. Evil on the home plane of a creature (thereby it not being summoned) doesn't prevent it from touching you. In the mephit example, it was obviously summoned (either by spell or as a familiar), and therefore it is affected by the Pro. Evil's ability to hold evil outsiders at bay.
Kazar 01-21-04, 04:19 AM	The problem im having is that semantics seem to be invoved a lot in rule interpritation. As far as knowing a creature is summon, how can you tell. A DM of ours for example has decided that when running modules any creature there is NOT summoned but just happend to somehow be there.(only creatures activily summoned in a fight or such is he classifing as summoned) I know that as DM this is his choice but im not looking for his opinion. Id like to know the way its supposed to be. As for the mephit example i gave, it had been there for a 1000 years trapped but WotC still consided it a summoned with no mention of how it got there. Also i know old editions dont necessarily or often have anything to do with 3.5 rules but in the old game a PFE spell stopped the demons from hell from coming near you even when on their plane, unless they where tough enouph to counter it somehow. Preventing the approach of the lesser creatures. That was the feel of the spell then and i dont think it needed to be changed but again that is just opinion and id like to know the way it is supposed to work as stated before. Thanks again
Gothic_Demon 01-21-04, 06:03 AM	The problem im having is that semantics seem to be invoved a lot in rule interpritation.You and everbody else! :) The rules (suggested rulings) leave a lot to be desired. Quite simply, my ruling as a DM is that any creature that is an outsider, unless it has the ability to Plane Shift, etc. is considered summoned when on the Prime Material Plane. The DM is perfectly entitled to assume any creature got there on its own though. As for the 1000 years mephit, the actual length of the stay is irrelevant, it is the original entry that counts: Even if you live in the US for 50 years, it makes a big difference if you flew in to if you were born there. Basically, if it flew in and was born elsewhere, it's probably summoned.
dantedarkstar 01-21-04, 07:06 AM	I would say that such Mephit is Called, not Summoned, and therefore can touch someone protected by PFE normally. After all Summoned means that only a manifestation of the creature was brought, not actual creature (as opposed to Called). There's distinct difference between summoning (Summon Monster <number>) and calling (Planar Binding, Planar Ally, Gate, etc.).