Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SpoonyBard 04-15-07, 07:57 PM	Summon Alchemist's Fire Conjuration (Summoning, Evil) Sor/Wiz 1, Bard 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 Swift Action Effect: One flask of Alchemist's Fire Duration: 1 round/level or until thrown (plus one round) Saving throw: None Spell Resistance: No A flask of alchemist's fire appears in your palm. Treat this item as a normal flask of alchemist's fire in all respects. If the duration expires before the flask has been thrown, it returns to where it was summoned from.
JulesCARV 04-15-07, 08:01 PM	Seems fine. I'm not sure it really should be a bard spell, and I'm not sure why it has the "evil" descriptor, but overall it's good.
Gaia 04-15-07, 08:02 PM	Just one question: "Why Evil?". Besides that, I like it. I'd suggest an Instantaneous duration, though.
SpoonyBard 04-15-07, 08:06 PM	Oh, it's evil because it's a SUMMONING, not a CREATION. You're getting this Alchemist's Fire from somewhere else, and you're using it up, as opposed to most summoning spells where the object returns unharmed. And it's duration instead of instantaneous to avoid people using a 1st level spell to make a 20 GP item and make 50 GP a day doing nothing at level 1.
1stCainite 04-15-07, 08:09 PM	Oh, it's evil because it's a SUMMONING, not a CREATION. You're getting this Alchemist's Fire from somewhere else, and you're using it up, as opposed to most summoning spells where the object returns unharmed. In that case it would be a CALLING spell not a SUMMONING spell. but imo it would still not be evil. for a spell to be evil it would have to deal with something nefarious, demons or a LOT of negative energy.
SpoonyBard 04-15-07, 08:11 PM	In that case it would be a CALLING spell not a SUMMONING spell. but imo it would still ont be evil. for a spell to be evil it would have to deal with something nefarious, demons or a LOT of negative energy. Stealing isn't evil enough? Eh, the evil part was mostly for funny anyway. XD I was thinking a series of these feats for the basic alchemical items (Thunderstone, Alchemist's Frost,Tanglefoot Bag, etc). Is it balanced for those, or should Tanglefoot be level 2 (As the Tanglefoot bag costs more than a first level scroll)
1stCainite 04-15-07, 08:12 PM	heh. think, byt the way, of the implications of this spell... :D From now on DMs will have to randomly remove Alchemists' Fire potions from players' bags.
SpoonyBard 04-15-07, 08:15 PM	heh. think, byt the way, of the implications of this spell... :D From now on DMs will have to randomly remove Alchemists' Fire potions from players' bags. Oh, the other part I was thinking of adding... "Casting this spell flags you for other castings. Every day after casting there is a cumulative 5% chance that a flask of alchemist's fire in your possession dissapears. When one does, the percent chance dissapears. If the chance is over 100%, the next Alchemist's Fire you come within five feet of (except Alchemist's Fire summoned by a spell you cast) dissapears." But that just seemed like too much of a hassel. XD
1stCainite 04-15-07, 08:20 PM	in all seriousness :) this is how i'd make it: Summon Alchemist's Fire Conjuration (Calling) Sor/Wiz 2, Bard 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 Standard Action Effect: One flask of Alchemist's Fire Duration: 1 minute/level Saving throw: None (except the one standard for Alchemist Fire Spell Resistance: No A flask of alchemist's fire appears in your palm. Treat this item as a normal flask of alchemist's fire in all respects. If the duration expires before the flask has been thrown, it returns to where it was summoned from. And then leave it up to the master weather or not he want to bother the party rogue with disapearing potions in the future :)
SpoonyBard 04-15-07, 08:25 PM	I definitely want it as a swift action. One of the main points of this spell is that I want the caster to be able to obtain AND throw the alchemist's fire in a single round. As for a level 2 spell, umm... Level 2 conjurations are better than Alchemist's fire, aren't they?
1stCainite 04-15-07, 08:32 PM	yes.. you are right... Maybe either lower the spell level to 1st for wiz/sor or make it a swift action. but i don't think they should be both.... ofcourse you could just make it a swift action and lower the duration back to 1 rd/level (which i now realise is pretty much the same as you had from the get go :) ) so yes your spell, so to speak, holds water. (though i still think you should allow for the normal saving throw on Alchemist Fire. I am not sure if that was your original intention.
Drachasor 04-15-07, 08:33 PM	I think dropping the evil tag and make it "creation" is all you need. -Drachasor
SpoonyBard 04-15-07, 08:37 PM	UPDATE! Summon Alchemist's Fire Conjuration (Calling) Sor/Wiz 1, Bard 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 Swift Action Effect: One flask of Alchemist's Fire Duration: 1 round/level or until thrown (plus one round) Saving throw: As Alchemist's Fire Spell Resistance: No A flask of alchemist's fire appears in your palm. Treat this item as a normal flask of alchemist's fire in all respects. If the duration expires before the flask has been thrown, it returns to where it was summoned from.
SpoonyBard 04-15-07, 08:39 PM	Summon Alchemist's Frost Conjuration (Calling) Sor/Wiz 1, Bard 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 Swift Action Effect: One flask of Alchemist's Frost Duration: 1 round/level or until thrown (plus one round) Saving throw: As Alchemist's Frost Spell Resistance: No A flask of alchemist's frost appears in your palm. Treat this item as a normal flask of alchemist's fire in all respects, except that it deals cold damage. If the duration expires before the flask has been thrown, it returns to where it was summoned from. Summon Thunder stone Conjuration (Calling) Sor/Wiz 1, Bard 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 Swift Action Effect: One Thunder Stone Duration: 1 round/level or until thrown Saving throw: As Thunder Stone Spell Resistance: No A thunder stone appears in your palm. Treat this item as a normal thunder stone in all respects. If the duration expires before the flask has been thrown, it returns to where it was summoned from.
1stCainite 04-15-07, 08:40 PM	I still think it should be Calling if your purpose is for it to be snatched from somewhere else in the planes into your hand. (summoning makes a copy of a creature / item from somewhere else, Calling transports it to you.) But otherwise a nice flavour spell.
SpoonyBard 04-15-07, 08:40 PM	Calling it is!
1stCainite 04-15-07, 08:42 PM	too fast for me. :P
ArcTan 04-16-07, 01:11 AM	Oh, it's evil because it's a SUMMONING, not a CREATION. You're getting this Alchemist's Fire from somewhere else, and you're using it up, as opposed to most summoning spells where the object returns unharmed. Calling spells aren't [Evil], either, despite the fact that the creature you call does have a chance of permanently dying. Planar binding, which calls a creature *against its will* and forces it to accept a potentially dangerous bargain from you, isn't [Evil] unless you use it to call an Evil entity (ironically, binding and risking the life of a Good creature is [Good]). Really, the alignment descriptors exist to talk about what kind of aligned energies a spell calls upon in a mystical sense, not to talk about the actual morality, in the ordinary sense, of the spell. All spells can be used for a Good or an Evil purpose.
ArcTan 04-16-07, 01:13 AM	Stealing isn't evil enough? Eh, the evil part was mostly for funny anyway. Most people tend to agree that stealing in and of itself is Chaotic, not Evil. (Stealing with regard for whom it benefits and whom it harms, trying to help the greater good, is CG. Stealing only to survive is CN. Stealing to willfully cause great harm to others for your own benefit is CE.)