Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ticarden 01-22-05, 10:35 AM	I am attempting to gain some opinions on how certain alignment based spells should be adjucated. Situtation: A lawful good cleric of Torm used the Consecrate Spell Metamagic feat on the spell Dictum. Dicutm is currently a Evocation,Lawful, Sonic spell. The Consecrate Spell Feat says that "a spell you modify with this feat gains the good descriptor". My questions is the following, what would the end resulting spell look like and what would it or would it not effect? Would it be a Evocation, Lawful, Good, Sonic spell effecting both choatic & evil? Would it be a Evocation, Lawful Good, Sonic spell effecting only choatic evil creatuers? If my cleric has both the Lawful and Good domains, does he get the level increase for both domains when casting the spell to determine caster level, and consequently all other possible alignment increases for. etc. Thanks and any and all advice is much appreciated.
Seeker95 01-22-05, 01:28 PM	There is no [Lawful Good] descriptor. The resulting spell in your example would be: Evocation [Lawful][Good][Sonic] Placing all three descriptors into a single set of brackets is a space saver only. It would affect Chaotic and all Evil creatures. Chaotic Evil creatures woul dsuffer compounded effects. If you have both Lawful and Good domains, the stacking is up to your DM. Technically, you are stacking the "same bonus". But equally technically, Caster Level is not listed as a named bonus. I'd allow it. The next DM might not.
Bloodtide_the_Red 01-22-05, 08:39 PM	1.My questions is the following, what would the end resulting spell look like and what would it or would it not effect? The base spell is not changed. Dictum effects any nonlawful creature. Making it a good spell does not do much, though it would still effect a good creature, such as a neutral good folk, even though it's now a good spell. 2.Would it be a Evocation, Lawful, Good, Sonic spell effecting both choatic & evil? It's[Evocation,Sonic,Lawful,Good]. Note that Dictum can effect all nonlawful folks, so that includes neutral ones too. If there is no Lawful in their alignment, they can be effected. 3.If my cleric has both the Lawful and Good domains, does he get the level increase for both domains when casting the spell to determine caster level, and consequently all other possible alignment increases for. etc. Yes. This is know as Good Stacking. Your paying more then enough of a price(feat slot and spell slots) to get that level bonus. BT
ticarden 01-23-05, 03:23 PM	So let me see if I can summarize this tread and take this info to my DM. A Consecrated Dictum spell becomes the following Dictum - Evocation [Lawful][Good][Sonic] Alignments Effected: Any Non-Lawful Any Non-Good Basically Anything besided Lawful Good.
MystErikEry 01-23-05, 03:30 PM	If Consecrate only adds the [Good] descriptor, then it doesn't change how the spell works. It only works against Nonlawful (neutral or chaotic) creatures, and has no effect on Lawful ones (good, neutral, or evil, it doesn't matter).
Bloodtide_the_Red 01-24-05, 03:03 AM	A Consecrated Dictum spell becomes the following Dictum - Evocation [Lawful][Good][Sonic] Alignments Effected: Any Non-Lawful so that's: Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil. Making it a [Good] spell does not change the spells effects, and it will still harm non-lawful good guys. BT
TheGogmagog 01-24-05, 06:39 AM	Well, changing alignment doesn't change how the spell works, but making it a Consecrated Spell does. Consecrated spells do not affect Good alignments (unless I am confusing that with some other feat). So it just removes the good alignments that would normaly have been affected, it doesn't add anything. Dictum - Evocation [Lawful][Good][Sonic] Alignments Effected: Any Non-Lawful except good: Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil.
ticarden 01-25-05, 07:36 PM	Ok so I now have read the "Reading Spell Descriptions (Part Two)" by Skip Williams and specifically for here are a couple of things he says that may help figuring this out.... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040803a "Good: Good is one of the four basic alignments in the D&D game. Good spells are usually less effective (or ineffective) against creatures with good alignments or with the good subtype. They usually have enhanced effects against creatures with evil alignments or with the evil subtype. If your party goes plane hopping, you might find yourself in a place where good spells are somehow enhanced or diminished." Does this changes anyone's thoughts???
Bloodtide_the_Red 01-25-05, 11:03 PM	.............Consecrated spells do not affect Good alignments................ ---This is not stated in the feat. And I can't find a rule anywhere that says something like [Good] spells do not effect good creatures. Yes, some good spells have no effect on good guys, but that is just thoes spells. ......................Does this changes anyone's thoughts??? Not me. As it says right in the quote ''Good spells are usually less effective (or ineffective) against creatures with good alignments or with the good subtype. They usually have enhanced effects, ect". Note the 'usually', not 'always' or 'automaticaly'. BT
Seeker95 01-26-05, 07:25 AM	There is a difference between a spell created with the [good] subtype, and a spell to which the [good] subtype is added. The former usually have some kind of alignment effects. The latter do little (to nothing) more than allow a caster with the Good domain to cast at +1CL.