Considering adjusting SR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Considering adjusting SR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TieraStarr
04-03-04, 06:08 AM The core SR system severely disadvantages multiclass characters. Also a creature taking character class levels will quickly have his SR made irrelevant because his opponents will easily overcome it.

Therefore I have been considering a system to make the caster level less important in overcoming SR.

Take current SR, subtract 1, then subtract the creatures CR. Multiply the result by 5, then add the creatures CR. Now this is the creatures new SR%. When attempting to overcome a creatures SR, roll percentile dice and add the caster level (and any other bonuses, such as the spell penetration feat).

For example, an Ogre Mage has SR 19, and CR 8.
Therefore its new SR% is (19-1-8)*5+8+1 = 59%.

An 8th level wizard encountering an ogre mage rolls d%+8 to effect it, therefore has a 50% chance of effecting it (which is the identical to the chance with the core rules).
However, a 10th level wizard will roll d%+10, and thus have a 52% chance of effecting it. (Core rules will allow the 10th level wizard a 60% chance of penetration.)
And an 6th level wizard rolls %+6, and thus has a 48% chance of effecting it. (Core rules only allow a 40% chance).

A rakshasa has SR 27, and CR 10. Therefore it's SR% = 91%. This gives a 10th level wizard a 20% chance of effecting it (same as core rules), a 12th level wizard a 22% chance of effecting it (vs 30% in core rules), or an 8th level wizard an 18t% chance (vs a 10% chance in the core rules).

=======

I think with this modification the Spell Penetration feats need to be improved to at least +5 and +10 to the roll, instead of the current +2 and +4.

=======

So, do people think this would be a reasonable modification - or does it make caster level too irrelevant. (I've considered adding caster level + spell level to give it a little more oomph - and to compensate increase the SR% by ½ the CR also.)
Sisyfos
04-03-04, 07:48 AM This modification makes SR way too powerful. I would say a big resounding NO at that mod. An epic wizard would still have problems passing even a very low level SRs. Clerics would be close to 100% immune to arcane spellcasters through their "spell resistance" spell. Especially when combined with a simple item like pray beads of karma.

Sisyfos
TieraStarr
04-03-04, 08:33 AM Looks up Spell Resistance spell.

SR is 12+ caster level. (caster level will also be CR, so calculates to:
(12+CL-1-CL)x5 + CL + 1 = 56+CL.

As a fifth level spell, a cleric must be minimum 9th level, therefore he would gain/grant SR% of 65. An attacker with the same caster level as the cleric would have a 45% chance of penetrating. That doesn't equate to "close to 100% immune" in my understanding.

As for your comment about it still tripping up an epic wizard - that is one of my intentions with this modification. However, because I still kept caster level in the equation, an epic wizard will be less affected than a novice.

Using core rules, a 20th level wizard is unaffected by a 9th level cleric's SR spell. Whereas my modification still leaves a 35% chance of failing to penetrate. Those extra 11 levels reduce the chance of failing to penetrate by only -11%, instead of -55% in the core rules.

============

I really do think doubling caster level might be better - therefore every level difference will reduce or increase the chance of failure by 2% instead of 1%. However, I wanted to avoid the math. And that would relegate our 20th level wizard vs 9th level cleric to a 24% chance of failure instead.

Basically, I am trying to make things closer to the AD&D anti-magic system - where it was simply a static figure. But I wanted caster level (and the spell penetration feats) to still have some effect.
Seeker95
04-03-04, 11:15 AM The core SR system is supposed to disadvantage multi-class spellcasters. The appeal of multi-classing is great. Pure single class characters needs some reward for their dedication.

For melee fighters, this benefit is in BAB progression and Feats.
For "tweeners" (rogue, monk, paladin, etc.) it is in special abilities.
For spellcasters it is spell level and caster level.

SR is not broken. Don't fix it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TieraStarr 04-03-04, 06:08 AM	The core SR system severely disadvantages multiclass characters. Also a creature taking character class levels will quickly have his SR made irrelevant because his opponents will easily overcome it. Therefore I have been considering a system to make the caster level less important in overcoming SR. Take current SR, subtract 1, then subtract the creatures CR. Multiply the result by 5, then add the creatures CR. Now this is the creatures new SR%. When attempting to overcome a creatures SR, roll percentile dice and add the caster level (and any other bonuses, such as the spell penetration feat). For example, an Ogre Mage has SR 19, and CR 8. Therefore its new SR% is (19-1-8)*5+8+1 = 59%. An 8th level wizard encountering an ogre mage rolls d%+8 to effect it, therefore has a 50% chance of effecting it (which is the identical to the chance with the core rules). However, a 10th level wizard will roll d%+10, and thus have a 52% chance of effecting it. (Core rules will allow the 10th level wizard a 60% chance of penetration.) And an 6th level wizard rolls %+6, and thus has a 48% chance of effecting it. (Core rules only allow a 40% chance). A rakshasa has SR 27, and CR 10. Therefore it's SR% = 91%. This gives a 10th level wizard a 20% chance of effecting it (same as core rules), a 12th level wizard a 22% chance of effecting it (vs 30% in core rules), or an 8th level wizard an 18t% chance (vs a 10% chance in the core rules). ======= I think with this modification the Spell Penetration feats need to be improved to at least +5 and +10 to the roll, instead of the current +2 and +4. ======= So, do people think this would be a reasonable modification - or does it make caster level too irrelevant. (I've considered adding caster level + spell level to give it a little more oomph - and to compensate increase the SR% by ½ the CR also.)
Sisyfos 04-03-04, 07:48 AM	This modification makes SR way too powerful. I would say a big resounding NO at that mod. An epic wizard would still have problems passing even a very low level SRs. Clerics would be close to 100% immune to arcane spellcasters through their "spell resistance" spell. Especially when combined with a simple item like pray beads of karma. Sisyfos
TieraStarr 04-03-04, 08:33 AM	Looks up Spell Resistance spell. SR is 12+ caster level. (caster level will also be CR, so calculates to: (12+CL-1-CL)x5 + CL + 1 = 56+CL. As a fifth level spell, a cleric must be minimum 9th level, therefore he would gain/grant SR% of 65. An attacker with the same caster level as the cleric would have a 45% chance of penetrating. That doesn't equate to "close to 100% immune" in my understanding. As for your comment about it still tripping up an epic wizard - that is one of my intentions with this modification. However, because I still kept caster level in the equation, an epic wizard will be less affected than a novice. Using core rules, a 20th level wizard is unaffected by a 9th level cleric's SR spell. Whereas my modification still leaves a 35% chance of failing to penetrate. Those extra 11 levels reduce the chance of failing to penetrate by only -11%, instead of -55% in the core rules. ============ I really do think doubling caster level might be better - therefore every level difference will reduce or increase the chance of failure by 2% instead of 1%. However, I wanted to avoid the math. And that would relegate our 20th level wizard vs 9th level cleric to a 24% chance of failure instead. Basically, I am trying to make things closer to the AD&D anti-magic system - where it was simply a static figure. But I wanted caster level (and the spell penetration feats) to still have some effect.
Seeker95 04-03-04, 11:15 AM	The core SR system is supposed to disadvantage multi-class spellcasters. The appeal of multi-classing is great. Pure single class characters needs some reward for their dedication. For melee fighters, this benefit is in BAB progression and Feats. For "tweeners" (rogue, monk, paladin, etc.) it is in special abilities. For spellcasters it is spell level and caster level. SR is not broken. Don't fix it.