Contingency with UMD? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Contingency with UMD? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
allenthailand
12-12-05, 09:14 AM A player in a campaign I just sort of took over wats to cast Contigency (He's a Wizard/Loremaster/Archmage with maxed UMD) with a divine scroll of heal, with the condition "If I ever lose 130 hps or more."

Is this legal? Reading the spell doesn't give me much info either way, my instincts tell me it seems abusive, but I'm not sure. What do you all think?

Here's the spell from the SRD:

Contingency
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: At least 10 minutes; see text
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: One day/level (D) or until discharged

You can place another spell upon your person so that it comes into effect under some condition you dictate when casting contingency. The contingency spell and the companion spell are cast at the same time. The 10-minute casting time is the minimum total for both castings; if the companion spell has a casting time longer than 10 minutes, use that instead.

The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person and be of a spell level no higher than one-third your caster level (rounded down, maximum 6th level).

The conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear, although they can be general. In all cases, the contingency immediately brings into effect the companion spell, the latter being “cast” instantaneously when the prescribed circumstances occur. If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the whole spell combination (contingency and the companion magic) may fail when called on. The companion spell occurs based solely on the stated conditions, regardless of whether you want it to.

You can use only one contingency spell at a time; if a second is cast, the first one (if still active) is dispelled.

Material Component
That of the companion spell, plus quicksilver and an eyelash of an ogre mage, rakshasa, or similar spell-using creature.

Focus
A statuette of you carved from elephant ivory and decorated with gems (worth at least 1,500 gp). You must carry the focus for the contingency to work.
jaelis
12-12-05, 09:56 AM I agree it doesn't sound legit. You can always just say no, but if you want a technical reason, you could argue that when you use UMD with a scroll, you're not technically "casting" the spell, you're just using a spell-completion item. Since contingency requires you to actually cast the contingent spell, the UMD trick doesn't work.

I don't think that's a bad argument. No one would allow a contingency that activated a wondrous item, with UMD or not. Why should a scroll be any different?
Rondom
12-12-05, 10:20 AM OK, I had completely the opposite reaction. You *can* use spells from scrolls as if you had cast them for other purposes (such as magic item creation), so why not for this? It requires you to have enough UMD to both activate the scroll and emulate the WIS (OK, you might have the WIS, but then that was rather a waste wasn't it). So you are getting an advantage that you have paid some effort and money for. How is this abusive. It's good, sure, but how 'better' then the 'Teleport me home' trick most Wizards use?
Seeker95
12-12-05, 10:57 AM Sounds fair to me. I'd allow it. Except for the metagame condition of "the number of hit points".
Incognito2me
12-12-05, 10:59 AM Even if you go by 'spell completion', it doesn't say you have to cast the companion spell. It says You can place another spell upon your person . You place spells using scrolls/wands e.t.c, right?

There's a big difference between casting a spell and placing one. No-where does it say you have to cast the spell...

However, from a role-play perspective, you shouldn't really allow the '130hp' bit. Make your player be creative. :P
allenthailand
12-12-05, 11:54 AM OK, fair enough. I'll allow it, but make him redo the condition then. Thanks everyone!
jaelis
12-12-05, 12:50 PM So would you all allow a contingent SLA?

Would you allow the contingent spell to be one that another caster had cast for you (ie, instead of using UMD, the cleric casts heal while the wizard casts contingency)?
Seeker95
12-12-05, 01:10 PM So would you all allow a contingent SLA?No. It is not "a spell placed on your person"
Incognito2me
12-12-05, 01:42 PM Never mind. :embarrass
Seeker95
12-12-05, 02:15 PM Incognito, your reply makes absolutely no sense.
SLA is NOT a spell placed on your person. It is a spell-like ability.
As such, you cannot affect it with a contingency.
As such, I would not allow a contingent SLA.
IMarvinTPA
12-12-05, 02:29 PM He might be better served with a scroll of Fortunate Fate ('http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndLive/spells.php?ID=4549') Then he can use his contingency for something else and still get this goal. Although it doesn't last as long.

IMarv

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
allenthailand 12-12-05, 09:14 AM	A player in a campaign I just sort of took over wats to cast Contigency (He's a Wizard/Loremaster/Archmage with maxed UMD) with a divine scroll of heal, with the condition "If I ever lose 130 hps or more." Is this legal? Reading the spell doesn't give me much info either way, my instincts tell me it seems abusive, but I'm not sure. What do you all think? Here's the spell from the SRD: Contingency Evocation Level: Sor/Wiz 6 Components: V, S, M, F Casting Time: At least 10 minutes; see text Range: Personal Target: You Duration: One day/level (D) or until discharged You can place another spell upon your person so that it comes into effect under some condition you dictate when casting contingency. The contingency spell and the companion spell are cast at the same time. The 10-minute casting time is the minimum total for both castings; if the companion spell has a casting time longer than 10 minutes, use that instead. The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person and be of a spell level no higher than one-third your caster level (rounded down, maximum 6th level). The conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear, although they can be general. In all cases, the contingency immediately brings into effect the companion spell, the latter being “cast” instantaneously when the prescribed circumstances occur. If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the whole spell combination (contingency and the companion magic) may fail when called on. The companion spell occurs based solely on the stated conditions, regardless of whether you want it to. You can use only one contingency spell at a time; if a second is cast, the first one (if still active) is dispelled. Material Component That of the companion spell, plus quicksilver and an eyelash of an ogre mage, rakshasa, or similar spell-using creature. Focus A statuette of you carved from elephant ivory and decorated with gems (worth at least 1,500 gp). You must carry the focus for the contingency to work.
jaelis 12-12-05, 09:56 AM	I agree it doesn't sound legit. You can always just say no, but if you want a technical reason, you could argue that when you use UMD with a scroll, you're not technically "casting" the spell, you're just using a spell-completion item. Since contingency requires you to actually cast the contingent spell, the UMD trick doesn't work. I don't think that's a bad argument. No one would allow a contingency that activated a wondrous item, with UMD or not. Why should a scroll be any different?
Rondom 12-12-05, 10:20 AM	OK, I had completely the opposite reaction. You can use spells from scrolls as if you had cast them for other purposes (such as magic item creation), so why not for this? It requires you to have enough UMD to both activate the scroll and emulate the WIS (OK, you might have the WIS, but then that was rather a waste wasn't it). So you are getting an advantage that you have paid some effort and money for. How is this abusive. It's good, sure, but how 'better' then the 'Teleport me home' trick most Wizards use?
Seeker95 12-12-05, 10:57 AM	Sounds fair to me. I'd allow it. Except for the metagame condition of "the number of hit points".
Incognito2me 12-12-05, 10:59 AM	Even if you go by 'spell completion', it doesn't say you have to cast the companion spell. It says You can place another spell upon your person . You place spells using scrolls/wands e.t.c, right? There's a big difference between casting a spell and placing one. No-where does it say you have to cast the spell... However, from a role-play perspective, you shouldn't really allow the '130hp' bit. Make your player be creative. :P
allenthailand 12-12-05, 11:54 AM	OK, fair enough. I'll allow it, but make him redo the condition then. Thanks everyone!
jaelis 12-12-05, 12:50 PM	So would you all allow a contingent SLA? Would you allow the contingent spell to be one that another caster had cast for you (ie, instead of using UMD, the cleric casts heal while the wizard casts contingency)?
Seeker95 12-12-05, 01:10 PM	So would you all allow a contingent SLA?No. It is not "a spell placed on your person"
Incognito2me 12-12-05, 01:42 PM	Never mind. :embarrass
Seeker95 12-12-05, 02:15 PM	Incognito, your reply makes absolutely no sense. SLA is NOT a spell placed on your person. It is a spell-like ability. As such, you cannot affect it with a contingency. As such, I would not allow a contingent SLA.
IMarvinTPA 12-12-05, 02:29 PM	He might be better served with a scroll of Fortunate Fate ('http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndLive/spells.php?ID=4549') Then he can use his contingency for something else and still get this goal. Although it doesn't last as long. IMarv