Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nudnic 12-06-04, 12:44 AM	I have some players who have a torch with continual flame cast on it. They run into a Darkmantle. The Darkmatle casts darkness, the description reads: Once per day a darkmantle can cause darkness as the darkness spell (caster level 5th). It most often uses this ability just before attacking. A light spell will dispell a darkness spell of equal or lower level. Will the torch with continual flame display the Darkness generated by the Darkmantle? Since continual flame is a 3rd level spell we can assume the caster is 5th or 6th level. Q1) Do you have to cast continual flame as a counter spell to dispell darkness or does it do away with darkness it contacts at any time? Q2) Does the darkness generated by the Darkmantle count as a 5th level spell or does it count like the best darkness spell a 5th level character could cast? If the later which character class would be used? Q3) If continual flame counteracts the darkness does the continual flame persist? Or do the darkness and continual flame both do away with each other?
Nom 12-06-04, 01:07 AM	The most useful rule is probably on PH pg 216, under darkness: "Normal lights are incapabale of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level seplls are not affected by darkness." My understanding of the "dispels or counters" line is that you can use darkness to counter or dispel a lower level light spell exactly as you would use dispel magic or a counterspell, except that success is automatic. In contrast, if the areas of effect interpenetrate then the weaker spell is suppressed until the stronger goes away. daylight explicitly includes such a provision. Thus, I'd consider that a continual flame brought into an area of darkness ignores the darkness up to the limits of the flame.
Bloodtide_the_Red 12-06-04, 02:09 AM	Q1) Do you have to cast continual flame as a counter spell to dispell darkness or does it do away with darkness it contacts at any time? --Yes. If a dagger had darkness on it, you'd have to cast Continual Flame on the dagger to dispel it. Not just walk over to the dagger with a Continual Torch. You'd use it as a counter spell normaly. Q2) Does the darkness generated by the Darkmantle count as a 5th level spell or does it count like the best darkness spell a 5th level character could cast? If the later which character class would be used? ---In general, the class that cast the spell is not important. In general, if it's not stated in the monster entry, it's Arcane Magic. If it was important to know the class of the magic, it would say so. It's an 'average' 5th level casters Darkness spell. In this case, there is only one thing, the duration is 50 minutes. Q3) If continual flame counteracts the darkness does the continual flame persist? Or do the darkness and continual flame both do away with each other? ---Yes the continual flame persists, though this is not by-th-book, as it does not say this. You could have the light spell negatated by the dispel action, if you wish, though I would not. BT
Keenath 12-06-04, 10:40 AM	Actually, it IS entirely by the book. The CF torch doesn't go out. There is nothing that says it SHOULD go out, and if it isn't specified otherwise, the spell effect continues. Because CF and Darkness are equal level, they counter each other, and the lighting conditions are whatever the otherwise prevailing conditions are. In the case of a Darkmantle, this probably means pitch dark... But in any case, the effect of the torch is only supressed. When the Darkness spell ends, the torch still works.
Ferret 12-06-04, 12:14 PM	Yep, so if someone else also has a normal torch or lantern to the everburening torch then the light conditions is per the normal torch or lantern