Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ordos 07-02-06, 05:32 PM	Hi -- One of the PCs in IMC wanted to use Control Water to lower some water in a cave. I have some questions regarding its "interpretation" as presented in the SRD. Control Water Transmutation [Water] Level: Clr 4, Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 6, Water 4 Components: V, S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) Area: Water in a volume of 10 ft./level by 10 ft./level by 2 ft./level (S) Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None; see text Spell Resistance: No Depending on the version you choose, the control water spell raises or lowers water. Lower Water: This causes water or similar liquid to reduce its depth by as much as 2 feet per caster level (to a minimum depth of 1 inch). The water is lowered within a squarish depression whose sides are up to caster level x 10 feet long. In extremely large and deep bodies of water, such as a deep ocean, the spell creates a whirlpool that sweeps ships and similar craft downward, putting them at risk and rendering them unable to leave by normal movement for the duration of the spell. When cast on water elementals and other water-based creatures, this spell acts as a slow spell (Will negates). The spell has no effect on other creatures. Raise Water: This causes water or similar liquid to rise in height, just as the lower water version causes it to lower. Boats raised in this way slide down the sides of the hump that the spell creates. If the area affected by the spell includes riverbanks, a beach, or other land nearby, the water can spill over onto dry land. With either version, you may reduce one horizontal dimension by half and double the other horizontal dimension. Arcane Material Component: A drop of water (for raise water) or a pinch of dust (for lower water). 1) Does the volume really increase in a exponential fashion and not a linear one as appears in the spell? (Example: if a 10th level cleric casts the spell, is the volume really 100ft x 100 ft x 20 ft or is it simply ten 10x10x2 ft cubes?) 2) If one were to lower water, where does the water go? Does it disappear? What if one were to raise water instead of lower it? Can one "raise" water if one has only a pond to begin with? 3) If one lowers water (thus generating a "square shoe box" like depression in the given body of water), what happens if the area lowered is actually being fed water from a river? I presume it will not get "re-filled"? What would happen if a basin in a cave were to have water contained in it, and also have adjactent rooms with water? Would the adjact rooms keep their water (provided the voume of the spells does not encompass them) thus creating a reverse "aquarium" like effect (ie: the fish look outside a vertical plane of water to see air where the water used to be) (I hope that part is clear?? ;) ) In other words, is the effect similar as if one were to cast 5 "walls of force", all making a shoe box shape, and then emptying out the box -- while adjoining sections would remain "full" of water? Thanks
utilitarian 07-02-06, 05:41 PM	Unfortunately, this is one of those situations where physics and magic don't mix. The laws of physics concerning Displacement and Volume don't appear to apply to this spell. If I were to make up an explanation for this sort of thing, which I will, cuz I like doing that, I would say that the spell makes the water somehow more or less dense by the appropreate amount, thus allowing the water to reduce in volume without actually reducing or increasing in mass, and worrying about where the water goes. When the spell expires, the water returns to it's original density and either rises or lowers appropreately. Now I realize there's a whole hoast of other physics problems with this theory but it takes care of the problems that would be obvious to a couple of adventurers in a dungeon without a physics degree.
Thiez 07-02-06, 06:17 PM	Eeerh, wouldn't reducing the density like that make the water (if you started with just a small pool) lighter than air, making it float to the ceiling? :D
utilitarian 07-02-06, 06:32 PM	There's a big density difference between regular water and air. Yes if you reduced it's density enough it basically would become mist or steam and float away, but a small broad decrease in density would technically expand it's volume (making the water rise) without getting to the point of going off into the air. Or, you could just accept that "it's magic" and assume that the extra water is either created or magically whisked away until the duration of the spell.
Ordos 07-02-06, 08:59 PM	I'm more interested in knowing when i RAISE water, does there need to be some body of water nearby in order for the water to increase in volume? Otherwise, this can simply be considered some sort of massive "create water" spell... This is not a "sexy" spell.. this is why not a lot of people use it (nor do they often get a chance). But it is a powerful spell...
utilitarian 07-02-06, 09:18 PM	While I don't think you can Control Water that isn't there, you could effectively Raise a pool of water to make there be more water. That water WOULD go away after the 10/mins per level ends though.
Ordos 07-02-06, 09:50 PM	So one is in effect, creating water. I come back to my original question: if i had a small pond in my room, can i create a a veritable flood; albeit, nicely contained in a square box...? Thanks