Controlling the most Undead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Controlling the most Undead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mentalaffinity
08-18-05, 08:21 PM I want to control as many undead as possible, and figure out how to do it using just core materials. My DM allows Wizards 3.5 material, and any 3.0 that hasn't been updated with a new book, so pretty much I can use 3.5 books like Libris Mortis and the Complete Divine. The character would be level 9, but I'm interested in knowing how quickly the undead controlling powers increase as levels go up. As I can understand things, here's the main ways to control:

1. Animate/Create undead spells
2. Control Undead Class Ability
3. Magical Items, like the Rod of Undead Mastery
4. Temporary Summons like Summon Undead
5. Undead Leadership feat

Am I missing any spells that don't follow the 4HD/caster level rule? Perhaps missing a magic item that increases undead controlling effects?

~The Wizard knows many tricks, the Sorcerer knows one good one.
smrtgmp
08-18-05, 11:45 PM Will he allow eberron stuff? If so, I reccomend getting a Bone Knight (PrC from Five Nations) as a cohort. He can take over command of undead, acting as a leutenent(sp) of sorts.
Starmage21
08-18-05, 11:49 PM True Necromancer w/ General of Undeath

Can cast Animate Dead as Cleric
Can cast Animate Dead as Wizard
can Rebuke Undead at about the same power as a paladin can (meaning control)
gains Create Undead and Create Greater Undead as spell-like abilities
Zone of Desecration for undead enhancement.
ClErik
08-19-05, 03:46 AM There are three primary ways (that I can think of) of controling LARGE undead armies.

1. Spell Control.
Arcane caster and command undead. Use all spellslots (or as many as you like) to continuously command and army of mindless undead (skeletons and zombies, possibly created by animate dead) (mindless undead don't get to save).
Each spell lasts for one day per level, so effectively you can command one undead/level/spellslot (Extend spell doubles this). A Necromancer 9, 20 int (18 + 2 headband of intellect) can control at most (using all spellslots) 216 mindless undead of ANY HD (+36 HD via animate dead, but thats irrelevant). Add metamagic rods, pearls of power and chain spell later for even greater effect.

Pros: allows control of high HD undead, low-medium level requirement (Command Undead is a level 2 spell, but animate dead is level 4)
Cons: weak to area dispel attacks, uses spellslots, costly (animate dead requires onyxes for material components), requires lots of corpses from strong creatures (possibly 'created' at higher levels by means such as planar binding, polymorph any object)

2. Spawn Control.
Control an undead with the ability to create spawn, and to control spawn. comman your undead to issue an order that all its spawn must obey you, and that they in turn give the order to their spawn. Kind of cheesy, but viable by raw.

Pros: Cheap (no or only few material components), unlimited
Cons: only low HD undead, high level required (Create Greater Undead, unless your dm sends them against you), weak to 'assassination' (if your 'general' is slain, all your minions are freed), difficulties with prolonged control

3. Animated Control.
Control undead through the animation. General of undeath can be good for this, though it is still limited. 10 levels in the Pale Master PRC (see undead graft/deathless master's touch) gives you the ability to create 3 zombies per day that doesn't count against the HD limit. If you take the Pale Master path you might want to start out as sorcerer. You'll gain the ability later, but it will have a higher save DC (required for the best creatures). Be sure to weaken the new 'recruits' before attempting to convert them (anything that lowers the fortitude save is good). A Pale Masters cohort can also be useful, with the Spawn Control method in mind. A rod of undead mastery can help the cleric at low levels.

Pale Master Pros: cheap, unlimited, possibly strong undead
Pale Master Cons: high level required, high specialization required, zombies only, slow creation

Cleric (with General of Undeath) Pros: can't really think of anything
Cleric Cons: Expensive (material components), high level requirement (at least until they can get a LARGE army)

True Necromancers.
While it is true that they can control exceedingly large amount of undead via the Animated Control method, and their undead are generally stronger, they are also lagging behind in spellevels (and thus control methods). The Spell Control method is quite good for them, as they will always have their cleric spells, but they don't get animate dead until level 9, and can't cast General of Undeath until level 20, and by that time the Pale Master will have surpassed them anyway.

Summary.
Choose your path depending on when you need your power. If you need it quickly, go with a pure wizard using only the Spell Control method. If you can wait a little, go with sorcerer/pale master and start with the spell control method (start with a small group of skeletons created by scrolls of animate dead), have your cohort be a vampire cleric (good for spawn and desecrate), start animating zombies by 16th level and create a wraith as you hit level 17 for even more spawn.
Venom of the Yuan Ti
08-19-05, 04:12 AM If you are going true necromancer (I would) then you can get a small boost from spell stiched familiar.

There is one rought noone has sugested yet though. Become a spawn making undead such as a vampure (if you can convince your DM to trim th estupidly large LA) or a ghoul.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mentalaffinity 08-18-05, 08:21 PM	I want to control as many undead as possible, and figure out how to do it using just core materials. My DM allows Wizards 3.5 material, and any 3.0 that hasn't been updated with a new book, so pretty much I can use 3.5 books like Libris Mortis and the Complete Divine. The character would be level 9, but I'm interested in knowing how quickly the undead controlling powers increase as levels go up. As I can understand things, here's the main ways to control: 1. Animate/Create undead spells 2. Control Undead Class Ability 3. Magical Items, like the Rod of Undead Mastery 4. Temporary Summons like Summon Undead 5. Undead Leadership feat Am I missing any spells that don't follow the 4HD/caster level rule? Perhaps missing a magic item that increases undead controlling effects? ~The Wizard knows many tricks, the Sorcerer knows one good one.
smrtgmp 08-18-05, 11:45 PM	Will he allow eberron stuff? If so, I reccomend getting a Bone Knight (PrC from Five Nations) as a cohort. He can take over command of undead, acting as a leutenent(sp) of sorts.
Starmage21 08-18-05, 11:49 PM	True Necromancer w/ General of Undeath Can cast Animate Dead as Cleric Can cast Animate Dead as Wizard can Rebuke Undead at about the same power as a paladin can (meaning control) gains Create Undead and Create Greater Undead as spell-like abilities Zone of Desecration for undead enhancement.
ClErik 08-19-05, 03:46 AM	There are three primary ways (that I can think of) of controling LARGE undead armies. 1. Spell Control. Arcane caster and command undead. Use all spellslots (or as many as you like) to continuously command and army of mindless undead (skeletons and zombies, possibly created by animate dead) (mindless undead don't get to save). Each spell lasts for one day per level, so effectively you can command one undead/level/spellslot (Extend spell doubles this). A Necromancer 9, 20 int (18 + 2 headband of intellect) can control at most (using all spellslots) 216 mindless undead of ANY HD (+36 HD via animate dead, but thats irrelevant). Add metamagic rods, pearls of power and chain spell later for even greater effect. Pros: allows control of high HD undead, low-medium level requirement (Command Undead is a level 2 spell, but animate dead is level 4) Cons: weak to area dispel attacks, uses spellslots, costly (animate dead requires onyxes for material components), requires lots of corpses from strong creatures (possibly 'created' at higher levels by means such as planar binding, polymorph any object) 2. Spawn Control. Control an undead with the ability to create spawn, and to control spawn. comman your undead to issue an order that all its spawn must obey you, and that they in turn give the order to their spawn. Kind of cheesy, but viable by raw. Pros: Cheap (no or only few material components), unlimited Cons: only low HD undead, high level required (Create Greater Undead, unless your dm sends them against you), weak to 'assassination' (if your 'general' is slain, all your minions are freed), difficulties with prolonged control 3. Animated Control. Control undead through the animation. General of undeath can be good for this, though it is still limited. 10 levels in the Pale Master PRC (see undead graft/deathless master's touch) gives you the ability to create 3 zombies per day that doesn't count against the HD limit. If you take the Pale Master path you might want to start out as sorcerer. You'll gain the ability later, but it will have a higher save DC (required for the best creatures). Be sure to weaken the new 'recruits' before attempting to convert them (anything that lowers the fortitude save is good). A Pale Masters cohort can also be useful, with the Spawn Control method in mind. A rod of undead mastery can help the cleric at low levels. Pale Master Pros: cheap, unlimited, possibly strong undead Pale Master Cons: high level required, high specialization required, zombies only, slow creation Cleric (with General of Undeath) Pros: can't really think of anything Cleric Cons: Expensive (material components), high level requirement (at least until they can get a LARGE army) True Necromancers. While it is true that they can control exceedingly large amount of undead via the Animated Control method, and their undead are generally stronger, they are also lagging behind in spellevels (and thus control methods). The Spell Control method is quite good for them, as they will always have their cleric spells, but they don't get animate dead until level 9, and can't cast General of Undeath until level 20, and by that time the Pale Master will have surpassed them anyway. Summary. Choose your path depending on when you need your power. If you need it quickly, go with a pure wizard using only the Spell Control method. If you can wait a little, go with sorcerer/pale master and start with the spell control method (start with a small group of skeletons created by scrolls of animate dead), have your cohort be a vampire cleric (good for spawn and desecrate), start animating zombies by 16th level and create a wraith as you hit level 17 for even more spawn.
Venom of the Yuan Ti 08-19-05, 04:12 AM	If you are going true necromancer (I would) then you can get a small boost from spell stiched familiar. There is one rought noone has sugested yet though. Become a spawn making undead such as a vampure (if you can convince your DM to trim th estupidly large LA) or a ghoul.