Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Centauri 11-08-04, 07:11 PM	I'm running Keep on the Borderlands, doing my best to convert into 3.5 as I go. Part of the adventure involves a chaotic cult that has a large number of zombies and skeletons under their control. Trouble is, I can't see how that could work under the 3.5 rules. The only cleric in the bunch who is able to cast Animate Dead is only 4th level, which means he can control 16 HD of undead at most. Could he put them under the control of the lower level clerics? If not, when he creates more undead than he can control and the oldest ones fall out of his control, what do they do? Do they turn on whoever is nearby, continue to follow their last order, or what?
Seeker95 11-08-04, 08:49 PM	Don't worry about how the bad guys make it work. It just works. Call it DM privilege.
Centauri 11-08-04, 09:05 PM	Don't worry about how the bad guys make it work. It just works. Call it DM privilege. That way of thinking has a lot to recommend it. But what will I do down the road when one of my players wants to make an undead legion of his own?
kinem 11-08-04, 11:25 PM	That's one reason I'd say you should never make something work "just because" - it will come back to haunt you. The other is that your game world is not interesting unless it's internally consistent. The undead will follow their last orders, which is probably good enough. IIRC, most of the undead just stand around waiting to attack people other than the evil priests. The other option is to invent something which explains it, like a new magic item, spell, cleric domain, etc. It should be identifiable and unless it's an artifact or something, reproducible, but it doesn't have to be fair. For example if it's a new domain that only this god has, maybe the power is that they can transfer control of undead from one cleric to another. BTW animate dead requires a 5th level cleric.
Bloodtide_the_Red 11-08-04, 11:36 PM	Well, it's a bit of a wild ride, but you did ask, so........................ The Caves are full of Evil Chaos: so 3E wise that's Unhallowed and Descerated(as per the spells in the PH). Ok, then you have the numbers of undead. One trick is uncontroled undead...you can animate an unlimited number after all, there is just a limit on how many you can control. This will not work in this adventure, though, as the undead have set orders ans such. But, they could have had a Wand of Animate Dead. And then let everyone use it, within the Descerated aera. At 5th caster level, everyone gets to ainimate 20HD of undead when they use it.That might just be enough(And don't forget the spies in the Keep too). And you can always say the 9th level cleric that cast the Unhollow made some of the undead and gave them orders. Also each cleric can Control('turn ability') undead seperate from the Animate Dead limit. Have fun..... BT
Melpomene 11-09-04, 12:41 AM	Fifth level clerics don't deserve legions of anything. *cough* But, that's my oppinion. When my BBEG needs an army of undead, he/she hires out. Capture, torture, coerce, blackmail, seduce, or command as many necromancers as they can, then have those cast animate dead for them. In one instance, the BBEG was circa 15th level, took leadership, plus animate dead. Each able follower then took leadership, and animate dead. Thier followers then took animate dead. Many of those also had command undead for cleric levels. The end result was a very legal charictor who commanded a rather respectable legion. Also, money talks. Mercenary necromancers are remarkabley cheap, and most will be happy to lend you some of thier HD control for coin (the DMG has rules for mercenaries). Also, if you need number, remember that less is more. While a red dragon skeliton is impressive, if you want something that screams "legion," try and find critters with as small a HD as possable. One HD humanoids are always a good choice, but shop around.
Seeker95 11-09-04, 10:55 AM	That way of thinking has a lot to recommend it. But what will I do down the road when one of my players wants to make an undead legion of his own?Tell him that is an admirable goal and ask him how he intends to accomplish it. Bloodtide gave you a few ad hoc justifications for how to explain it in your conversion, and I think they will work just fine. Don't worry about all of the intricate details. The undead are there. Perhaps the existing residents have learned to stay away from certain areas. The animator has long since died. Let an existing cleric control only as many of them as he normally could. The rest are "uncontrolled" but mindless enough to continue following their existing orders.